[smudgie]

Did anybody else watch this last night.

Quite the eye opener.

The sooner they bring in a cap as to how many kids the state will pay to keep the better. Might change the attitude of " I will have as many kids as I like..it is not illegal".
No problem with someone having 11 kids..as long as they get off their backsides and work to keep them. I do object to the attitude that the more the merrier as a meal ticket.
£900 a week on benefits...it is beyond my comprehension.

[user104658]

Sensationalist propaganda using a highly unusual example to further the belief that ALL benefits claimants are "scum". Hate this type of show.

I'm not, in theory, against capping benefits at maybe 4 children - but then, the upcoming £26000 cap with universal credit should cover that anyway?

This just seems like needless fodder for Daily Mail readers to gnash their teeth over. It's like when a major newspaper did a "breakdown" of the expenses of a family on benefits and included cigarettes and beer in the calculation. Sigh. Again ridiculous propaganda suggesting that people on benefits are "living it up" somehow.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sensationalist propaganda using a highly unusual example to further the belief that ALL benefits claimants are "scum". Hate this type of show.

I'm not, in theory, against capping benefits at maybe 4 children - but then, the upcoming £26000 cap with universal credit should cover that anyway?

This just seems like needless fodder for Daily Mail readers to gnash their teeth over. It's like when a major newspaper did a "breakdown" of the expenses of a family on benefits and included cigarettes and beer in the calculation. Sigh. Again ridiculous propaganda suggesting that people on benefits are "living it up" somehow.

So glad you have posted this and put my thoughts far more eloquently than I ever could.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sensationalist propaganda using a highly unusual example to further the belief that ALL benefits claimants are "scum". Hate this type of show.

I'm not, in theory, against capping benefits at maybe 4 children - but then, the upcoming £26000 cap with universal credit should cover that anyway?

This just seems like needless fodder for Daily Mail readers to gnash their teeth over. It's like when a major newspaper did a "breakdown" of the expenses of a family on benefits and included cigarettes and beer in the calculation. Sigh. Again ridiculous propaganda suggesting that people on benefits are "living it up" somehow.

I have no objection to people who genuinely need help.
I disagree with the fact that this is HIGHLY unusual, it might not be the norm, but it s not that unsual.
Nothing new either, it has gone on for generations and time something was done about it.
The upcoming cap will have no bearing on this family, the mother is on disability etc and she will still receive her £60,000 a year from the taxpayer.
The fact that she reckons she has to do her "shopping" from the shoplfters as she would not manage otherwise makes me wonder just how much she does spend on cigarettes and takeaway food.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I have no objection to people who genuinely need help.
I disagree with the fact that this is HIGHLY unusual, it might not be the norm, but it s not that unsual.
Nothing new either, it has gone on for generations and time something was done about it.
The upcoming cap will have no bearing on this family, the mother is on disability etc and she will still receive her £60,000 a year from the taxpayer.
The fact that she reckons she has to do her "shopping" from the shoplfters as she would not manage otherwise makes me wonder just how much she does spend on cigarettes and takeaway food.

Hows that? I thought the cap affected everyone?

And yeah, it is highly unusual for someone to have that many kids and be on benefits

I will use a daily mail article PURELY because if anything, their results will be overstated. There is no chance at all that there are less people than the mail claim on benefits with loads of kids

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-broods.html

Also worth baring in mind with that list, that those on income support..many of them will be working too.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Hows that? I thought the cap affected everyone?

I'm no expert on this, but I watched the programme and the narrator did say the cap would not apply to the woman with 11 kids as her daughter was on DLA.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

I'm no expert on this, but I watched the programme and the narrator did say the cap would not apply to the woman with 11 kids as her daughter was on DLA.

DLA is in the late stages of being phased out

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Hows that? I thought the cap affected everyone?

And yeah, it is highly unusual for someone to have that many kids and be on benefits

I will use a daily mail article PURELY because if anything, their results will be overstated. There is no chance at all that there are less people than the mail claim on benefits with loads of kids

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...it-broods.html

Also worth baring in mind with that list, that those on income support..many of them will be working too.

No, apparently her benefits are not to be capped. Makes a mockery of all the spouting done by the Tories.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sensationalist propaganda using a highly unusual example to further the belief that ALL benefits claimants are "scum". Hate this type of show.

I'm not, in theory, against capping benefits at maybe 4 children - but then, the upcoming £26000 cap with universal credit should cover that anyway?

This just seems like needless fodder for Daily Mail readers to gnash their teeth over. It's like when a major newspaper did a "breakdown" of the expenses of a family on benefits and included cigarettes and beer in the calculation. Sigh. Again ridiculous propaganda suggesting that people on benefits are "living it up" somehow.

its no use blaming daily mail for everything. all they do is report news. fact is these workless idots bleed the system dry through endless kids they cant afford and the rest fo society works themselves into an early grave to earn far far less money. the only people you meet in pubs now is those on benefots or drug takers. the hard working majority cant afford it and are too tired for a few beers. fact. and no I don't read the daily mail

[King Gizzard]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sensationalist propaganda using a highly unusual example to further the belief that ALL benefits claimants are "scum". Hate this type of show.

I'm not, in theory, against capping benefits at maybe 4 children - but then, the upcoming £26000 cap with universal credit should cover that anyway?

This just seems like needless fodder for Daily Mail readers to gnash their teeth over. It's like when a major newspaper did a "breakdown" of the expenses of a family on benefits and included cigarettes and beer in the calculation. Sigh. Again ridiculous propaganda suggesting that people on benefits are "living it up" somehow.

yup, using an extreme example to represent the whole of benefit claimants, Cameron must have been loving it

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nathan

yup, using an extreme example to represent the whole of benefit claimants, Cameron must have been loving it

Exactly, creating 'folk devils' by using 2 claimants with a attitude of entitlement it creates the illusion that this is representative of all claimants... It isn't.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nathan

yup, using an extreme example to represent the whole of benefit claimants, Cameron must have been loving it

I have no doubt he is and in fact he and his truly awful Chancellor help fuel such stories like this one too 'via' the press in the speeches they make.
They themselves by their language as to the welfare budget and benefit claimants present such stories as this one as the norm rather than the extreme.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I have no doubt he is and in fact he and his truly awful Chancellor help fuel such stories like this one too 'via' the press in the speeches they make.
They themselves by their language as to the welfare budget and benefit claimants present such stories as this one as the norm rather than the extreme.

trouble was we average people mostly voted labour and guess what? the gap between rich and poor grew even bigger

labour gave people no aspirations and no chance to get out of their depravity
all they did was reward idiots who have kids they cant afford. they started illegal wars were over a million were killed, introduced over 3000 new mostly unnecessary laws, these subverted or civil rights and made the ever growing civil service even more untouchable and unaccountable to the public.

Im more scared of massive government corruption than I am of criminals with guns

[lostalex]

If you can't take care of your kids they should be put up for adoption imo. There are plenty of parents in America who would like to adopt white babies from disadvantaged backgrounds.

[lostalex]

People criticize American adoptive parents for adopting black babies or asian babies, but it's because there aren't enuf white babies for us to adopt. There are so many good parents wanting to adopt in America, but there arn't enuf white babies. maybe we can solve this if the UK allowed us to adopt the white babies from UK.

If they can't care for their own children then they have no business having them.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by lostalex

People criticize American adoptive parents for adopting black babies or asian babies, but it's because there aren't enuf white babies for us to adopt. There are so many good parents wanting to adopt in America, but there arn't enuf white babies. maybe we can solve this if the UK allowed us to adopt the white babies from UK.

If they can't care for their own children then they have no business having them.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

People criticize American adoptive parents for adopting black babies or asian babies, but it's because there aren't enuf white babies for us to adopt. There are so many good parents wanting to adopt in America, but there arn't enuf white babies. maybe we can solve this if the UK allowed us to adopt the white babies from UK.

If they can't care for their own children then they have no business having them.

BIB - That's terrible. These kids are at a disadvantage enough without being forced to live in a trailer park fed a diet of Burger King.

Originally Posted by smudgie

Did anybody else watch this last night.

Quite the eye opener.

The sooner they bring in a cap as to how many kids the state will pay to keep the better. Might change the attitude of " I will have as many kids as I like..it is not illegal".
No problem with someone having 11 kids..as long as they get off their backsides and work to keep them. I do object to the attitude that the more the merrier as a meal ticket.
£900 a week on benefits...it is beyond my comprehension.

Society makes a bet that for every scrounger looking for a meal ticket, there are hundreds or thousands who need the help of the government to provide a social safety net, and do you know what? It generally works out well. At the moment the gap between the bottom and top is getting wider and wider. That's not because of the people at the bottom.

No one ever makes a programme like this about the many ways millionaires and billionaires swan around avoiding their tax burdens (which costs the state more than all the scroungers do) How about seeing guys on yachts bragging about how they pay their accountants an extra zero to make sure none of their money goes towards feeding the children of poor families?

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Society makes a bet that for every scrounger looking for a meal ticket, there are hundreds or thousands who need the help of the government to provide a social safety net, and do you know what? It generally works out well. At the moment the gap between the bottom and top is getting wider and wider. That's not because of the people at the bottom.

No one ever makes a programme like this about the many ways millionaires and billionaires swan around avoiding their tax burdens (which costs the state more than all the scroungers do) How about seeing guys on yachts bragging about how they pay their accountants an extra zero to make sure none of their money goes towards feeding the children of poor families?

I totally agree about the millionaire and billionaire tax dodgers.
This should be sorted out, all the loopholes could be taken care of.
I am all for the safety net for the needy, heaven knows any one of us could be in the position of needing help.
I just strongly object to people taking the money then sticking two fingers up and saying f* ck you if you don't like it.

Originally Posted by smudgie

I totally agree about the millionaire and billionaire tax dodgers.
This should be sorted out, all the loopholes could be taken care of.
I am all for the safety net for the needy, heaven knows any one of us could be in the position of needing help.
I just strongly object to people taking the money then sticking two fingers up and saying f* ck you if you don't like it.

If we look at the top and the bottom of the wealth scale, the ones at the top cost us the most, and by that factor alone do way more damage to the country, than people at the bottom. However the only fixes we see or hear about seem to include reducing the services/funds of the people at the bottom.

It's a nonsensical approach to a societal problem. The money wasted at the top takes money from infrastructure repairs and community investment, which in turn creates jobs for people at the bottom. Until we tackle the problems with tax avoidance then I have no interest in waging a war on the poor to ensure we get the minority of a minority of scroungers.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

If we look at the top and the bottom of the wealth scale, the ones at the top cost us the most, and by that factor alone do way more damage to the country, than people at the bottom. However the only fixes we see or hear about seem to include reducing the services/funds of the people at the bottom.

It's a nonsensical approach to a societal problem. The money wasted at the top takes money from infrastructure repairs and community investment, which in turn creates jobs for people at the bottom. Until we tackle the problems with tax avoidance then I have no interest in waging a war on the poor to ensure we get the minority of a minority of scroungers.

Yes, more should be done to make the fat cats pay their taxes, without a doubt.
I should imagine that if they paid their way it would make us all happy .

Nothing stopping the government sorting it at both ends of the scale....if they REALLY wanted to.

[arista]

I viewed a clip of it.

It looked bad.
Stuck in a rut

[arista]

Watch here

45mins
http://www.channel5.com/shows/on-ben...benefits-proud

Tick you are over 16 , first


Posted on the above site Ch5 site :

[AndrewZoey :
I am Dutch, living in The Netherlands,
and was amazed by this programme.
Why isn't there any shame
amongst these people? I was shocked! ]

[Nedusa]

Most people given the chance will work some will work hard but no one will ever convince me that some people are able to work so hard that through the fruits of that extra labour they are now millionaires or multi millionaires.

No , they were in right place right time and found a way to amass these fortunes. The point here is that for every billionaire out there are a million desparately poor people with nothing . This is the true nature of Capitalism it is inherently unjust as it redirects a finite wealth resource and distributes it unfairly as can be seen in the current extremes of wealth and poverty in most developed western capitalist countries.

Having a system that tries to help disadvantaged people can only be a good thing but programmes like these seek to publicise the extreme examples that do appear unfair. This is typical Tory biased press propaganda to make the dismantling of our Welfare state easier to do under the noses of the public.

We must resist this and cling tighter to our current system, in fact we should limit the amount of wealth creation in this country, we should tax individuals and businesses more so that the net amount of profit they make should not become obscene like most banks.

Utility companies should be tightly regulated and ALL profits should be fed back into the infrastructure NOT paid to bloody shareholders...

I could rabbit on about this all day but suffice to say channelling all ones anger and frustration about the unfairness of the state of our Society onto a family who can't master birth control , is in my opinion rather feeble and lazy...!!!

[Vicky.]

In theory a cap sounds good. But theres the problem of those who had kids when they could afford them, and then lost their job. Also the problem of no contraceptive being 100% effective. Unless we expect people to go celibate/get sterilized if they are out of work at any period in their lives.