[fingers]

As Claymores said in another thread, meanwhile back at the ranch:

Youtube video

[Marc]

that's a rather scary figure

[arista]

Yes Central Africa is a War Zone
no outside help.

it appears its Doomed

[Z]

It's a rather simplified and not exactly congruous way to look at it I know, but I just see the continued desperation in Africa as a scaled down version of how the "first world" operates - you have a very small group of people with all the wealth and power who are determined to keep everyone else (relatively) poor to continue their way of life as the rich elite. Take away vast amounts of money (though certainly not in every case, looking at Mugabe as an example given in this thread) and it's the same concept - a small powerful elite keeping everyone else poor in order to maintain their grip on being a powerful elite.

The heads need to be chopped off; but of course every time this has been tried in the last however many decades, somebody else has immediately taken their place; and the West doesn't really want to intervene because keeping other countries poor means that they get to continue to be the rich, powerful elite.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Zee

It's a rather simplified and not exactly congruous way to look at it I know, but I just see the continued desperation in Africa as a scaled down version of how the "first world" operates - you have a very small group of people with all the wealth and power who are determined to keep everyone else (relatively) poor to continue their way of life as the rich elite. Take away vast amounts of money (though certainly not in every case, looking at Mugabe as an example given in this thread) and it's the same concept - a small powerful elite keeping everyone else poor in order to maintain their grip on being a powerful elite.

Completely correct; take the USA as a prime example. They don't have children dying every day of starvation but they do have many hundreds of thousands of children living in relative poverty. They also have countless people dying every year of curable ailments because they can't afford treatment.

The USA is also home to over 50% of the world's multi-billionaires.



To use a scaled down and more local example; there are working families in the UK choosing between eating a decent diet and keeping their homes warm in winter. Meanwhile, politicians earning over Ł60k a year are claiming fuel expenses for their homes and thinking nothing of it.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Completely correct; take the USA as a prime example. They don't have children dying every day of starvation but they do have many hundreds of thousands of children living in relative poverty. They also have countless people dying every year of curable ailments because they can't afford treatment.

The USA is also home to over 50% of the world's multi-billionaires.



To use a scaled down and more local example; there are working families in the UK choosing between eating a decent diet and keeping their homes warm in winter. Meanwhile, politicians earning over Ł60k a year are claiming fuel expenses for their homes and thinking nothing of it.

The word "poverty" means nothing anymore. what is called "poverty" in the USA is a joke compared to what real "poverty" looks like in Africa, South America, and Asia.

Most of the people technically in "poverty" in the USA still have flat screen TV's and cell phones. Its a joke talking about "poverty" in the USA. As an example, there are people in the USA who are making thousands of dollars a month selling drugs, but they are counted as being in "poverty" because they don't have any reported income.

"poverty" in the USA doesn't mean you are starving to death, it just means you aren't paying any taxes.

[Kizzy]

Don't get me started.... Did you hear what that wooly jackal Boris Johnson said this week?
I know ours is not quite as corrupt as some governments....but we're getting there.

[arista]

Crisis in Central Africa on CNN
great reports

[Ninastar]

You know what pisses me off about hearing this all the time? It's the fact that I could donate every single penny of what I own. I could sell all my clothes and even my car to make money to send to Africa and it still wouldn't make the slightest difference. I can't change the fact that 1,000,000,000 children in Africa die a week, or whatever bloody statistic it is. I shouldn't be made to feel guilty about having a comfortable lifestyle.

And what these 'dead-African-children-preachers' don't get is that I give a decent amount of money to charity of all types. I gave Ł50 to Cancer Research. Everytime I have change in a shop, i put the last of it in the little tin for charities.... I swear all these adverts/people who preach like to think that no one does anything to help when there is a hell of a lot of people who do.

sorry for the rant, but I've seen this attitude on the forum a lot recently and it really pisses me off

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

You know what pisses me off about hearing this all the time? It's the fact that I could donate every single penny of what I own. I could sell all my clothes and even my car to make money to send to Africa and it still wouldn't make the slightest difference. I can't change the fact that 1,000,000,000 children in Africa die a week, or whatever bloody statistic it is. I shouldn't be made to feel guilty about having a comfortable lifestyle.

And what these 'dead-African-children-preachers' don't get is that I give a decent amount of money to charity of all types. I gave Ł50 to Cancer Research. Everytime I have change in a shop, i put the last of it in the little tin for charities.... I swear all these adverts/people who preach like to think that no one does anything to help when there is a hell of a lot of people who do.

sorry for the rant, but I've seen this attitude on the forum a lot recently and it really pisses me off

It's fair enough, it's time people opened their eyes and realised that what these people (and all of the billions of people in the world not sitting pretty at the top) need is a fundamental change in global politics and an end to wealth-hoarding at the top level. Not a tin of baked beans and a mosquito net.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's fair enough, it's time people opened their eyes and realised that what these people (and all of the billions of people in the world not sitting pretty at the top) need is a fundamental change in global politics and an end to wealth-hoarding at the top level. Not a tin of baked beans and a mosquito net.

I think most people know that but what exactly can we do in a capitalist society? Tax the rich and global conglomerates to the point they move elsewhere? I don't want to see people killing each other in a coup and I don't want to see us the world become communist either.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's fair enough, it's time people opened their eyes and realised that what these people (and all of the billions of people in the world not sitting pretty at the top) need is a fundamental change in global politics and an end to wealth-hoarding at the top level. Not a tin of baked beans and a mosquito net.

..yes of course you're right but not everything will happen/change no matter how much you want it to or how much it should and sometimes a tin of baked beans and a mosquito net can make an immediate and real difference to someone's life...maybe not long lasting, but long lasting takes much longer to solve and in the meantime doing something, no matter how small is better than nothing at all and could mean a lot to someone...

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yes of course you're right but not everything will happen/change no matter how much you want it to or how much it should and sometimes a tin of baked beans and a mosquito net can make an immediate and real difference to someone's life...maybe not long lasting, but long lasting takes much longer to solve and in the meantime doing something, no matter how small is better than nothing at all and could mean a lot to someone...

I agree

[Ammi]

..I guess for me it's a case of while we're discussing the rights and wrongs..(we being not people on this forum but in general..) and the time it takes for real long term and effective changes..why not donate a 'shoebox' for one child to have a Christmas smile that they wouldn't have... or something similar, sort of thing...

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by fingers

As Claymores said in another thread, meanwhile back at the ranch:

Youtube video

A frightening vid fingers. Sorry TIBBers if I went over the score yesterday - I was simply pointing-out that while small disasters happen close-by and the media jump on them, that there are bigger disasters happening every day with no need for a helocopter to be involved.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Claymores

A frightening vid fingers. Sorry TIBBers if I went over the score yesterday - I was simply pointing-out that while small disasters happen close-by and the media jump on them, that there are bigger disasters happening every day with no need for a helocopter to be involved.

I do agree with that, me and my partner were talking about this during the "live" footage of the helicopter crash incident... the fact that it seems like drama / spectacle somehow amps up "tragedy" for observers. We have the Scottish first minister personally talking about how we should "prepare ourselves for the likelihood of casualties" after the helicopter crash ... and yes, it is tragic, that people died and a few dozen were injured ... but it's been absolutely all over the news, whilst (for example) the deaths of THOUSANDS due to the combination of soaring fuel bills, cuts to benefits, and of course ATOS telling very ill people that they must work (which they try to do, and then die) generates nowhere near as much media attention. Because it's not "flashy" or "interesting" like a helicopter plummeting from the sky.

You could go further; do you think if a car with three people in it had crashed through a pub it would have created the same media "buzz"? I highly doubt it. It would probably have made the front page of a few newspapers but it would be one of those "in passing" news stories; even if the cost in lives and injuries was identical. It's such massive news "because it was a HELICOPTER wtf wtf!!!". It makes very little sense.

Which is basically what I think applies here. People need to make a bit of hollywood drama out of their news; it's visceral and exciting when showing starving children juxtaposed against corrupt, rich politicians to make out like it's these "evil warlords in strange foreign places", and imagine that we can ride in with our donations / bombs and make a difference for them. People can get on board with that.

Pointing out that, actually, this is exactly how every single country in the world works, and that nothing will EVER change for these people or for ANYONE until the world stops accepting these systems of control... that it's a broad-ranging political issue... that the wealth divide between Mugabe and an African child in a hut made of corrugated iron panels is actually immeasurably smaller than the divide between a British baby stuck in a damp, lung-condition-(and possibly SIDS)-inducing bedroom in a London high-rise and precious little Prince George, whose family's wealth makes Mugabe's palace look like it's worth chump change.

It's not dramatic in a "fun, exotic" way to realise that babies in our own back yard are dying for the very same reasons... and it's probably controversial to suggest that we might want to try to make a meaningful difference in our own country, to our own horrific political system and wealth distribution structure, before wagging our fingers at other countries.

[arista]

450 dead
in Central Africa.

Ch4News Live report.

But at last the French Troops have arrived
trying to stop the 2 sides fighting.

[arista]

450 dead
in Central Africa.

Ch4News Live report.

But at last the French Troops have arrived
trying to stop the 2 sides fighting.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Republic.html

[arista]

[GypsyGoth]

That picture is very shocking.

Does that guy get killed?

[arista]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

That picture is very shocking.

Does that guy get killed?

No Cut
he ran away

[arista]

From Ch4News Live far better than BBC4 World News

a brief interview with the Leader of Central Africa Nation
he has to now stay at the Airport
as he can nor return to his home as he will be killed.
The only Fully Armed place the Airport.

France has had 2 of its troops sadly Killed in battle.


If France leaves
that nation will go back to full wars

[the truth]

horrific ...absolutely horrific...one of the problems is we allowed politicians and the likes of bono to promote wiping African debt, but that inadvertently allowed Mugabe even more power
this though ultimately is a stain on all the cowardly spineless leaders across the globe who simply sat arms folded as this genocide goes on for decades

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

horrific ...absolutely horrific...one of the problems is we allowed politicians and the likes of bono to promote wiping African debt, but that inadvertently allowed Mugabe even more power
this though ultimately is a stain on all the cowardly spineless leaders across the globe who simply sat arms folded as this genocide goes on for decades

They speak French in this Central African Nation
so its right that French troops are there
trying to get order back

[the truth]

Originally Posted by arista

They speak French in this Central African Nation
so its right that French troops are there
trying to get order back

so what?