[arista]

[Teachers are considering a fresh walkout just
weeks after strike action forced schools
across England and Wales to close.
Members of the
National Union of Teachers (NUT) meeting for
their annual conference today will debate
the possibility of industrial action
next term unless "significant progress"
is made in talks with the Government.
NUT general secretary Christine Blower
said: "We have a motion that's going
to be put to delegates which envisages
industrial action in late June if we don't
make progress in the talks with
the Government in May.]


http://news.sky.com/story/1245300/te...lks-break-down

[Livia]

Another reason to oppose fining parents for taking their children out of school during term time.

[Kizzy]

Not at all, I'm a parent and I'm fully supportive. Parents taking kids out of school in term time is a totally separate issue, it's not the decision of teachers to fine parents either.

[Livia]

Yeah it's always a different issue when teachers leave the school unattended during term time, to go on strike or have an inset day. Why they can't do that during their ridiculously long holidays is beyond me. Striking is a tool that worked years ago when conditions were deplorable . Now, people rightly pour scorn on striking lefties. Public opinion is not with them on this except from a certain section of society.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah it's always a different issue when teachers leave the school unattended during term time, to go on strike or have an inset day. Why they can't do that during their ridiculously long holidays is beyond me. Striking is a tool that worked years ago when conditions were deplorable . Now, people rightly pour scorn on striking lefties. Public opinion is not with them on this except from a certain section of society.

What section is that, those who understand the importance of professionalism in the classroom as well as the boardroom?
Strike action is for when both sides don't or can't reach an amicable agreement, not just a method used in days of yore.
People do not rightly pour scorn on striking teachers ignorant people who can't see further than the end of their nose on certain issues do, as they choose not to adequately educate themselves on the issue and rely on right wing soundbites to express their skewed opinion.
Teachers,who's political leanings are I'm sure as varied as the subjects they teach, are well within their rights to strike to protect their jobs and the standard of education of children from all sections of society.

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you dont give us what we want we will take our ball away

f off teachers

[smudgie]

Not all of the teachers will be on strike.
Those still at school try and take over the more important lessons.

[AnnieK]

But by striking, they are denying children educational opportunities. Strikes very rare get anywhere...seems a fruitless waste of time to me...

[arista]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

But by striking, they are denying children educational opportunities. Strikes very rare get anywhere...seems a fruitless waste of time to me...

Yes I hope before June
they stop the 2 Strikes planned.

[Kizzy]

No.. they are protecting the rights of all children to a decent education.

[Ammi]

..the thing about it is that I have never met any teacher that wanted to strike or was happy to do it, they have no choice..or the ones who are in a union don't..it disrupts their whole timetable for the term as they still have to try to fit those lessons in anyway, which isn't easy and they don't support any time that is taken from the children's learning..the same with holidays in term time..?..most school staff don't support that either but they do understand that costs and other factors would make it impossible for some families to have a holiday any other way, whereas education welfare look at it very 'black and white' and you just don't do it for whatever the reason..I will say as well that fines are only enforced if schools ask for a penalty notice, which is the first step and many schools refuse to do request one...

[AnnieK]

I just can't see what strike action achieves...nothing is ever solved. Both my parents went through strike action once both at the same time....all it achieved was financial hardships for us as a family that took years to recover from fully, it's ok for these union leaders...but for the teachers who lose money, the parents who have to arrange cosly childcare or take leave from their own work and the kids who miss lessons....I fail to see wat any of it achieves

[Kizzy]

'Teachers explain why they are on strike: 'If it's bad for us, it's definitely bad for the kids'
A national teachers' strike has closed thousands of schools across England and Wales. Three teachers tell us why they have decided to go on strike'

Have a look at this, it give an insight into what the thoughts of some teachers think of the situation they are in now.
We can all shrug and accept what is forced upon us by government but is that democracy?

http://www.theguardian.com/education...d-for-the-kids

[arista]

Yes its Democracy
that they can Strike.

But much of this Nation
does not Back Your Greedy Teachers
Kizzy.

[AnnieK]

I don't think they're greedy Arista but I don't think they're as hard done to as they make out. I work as many hours, work from home when I'm not there and get paid less than a teacher who has been in the job as long as I have without the pension scheme they have....buti don't feel the need to walk out and lose money fighting a losing battle

[Ammi]

..it's not about being greedy Arista and I think you know that...'performance related increments' are nothing to do with performance in the classrooms, they are date/tracking/Ofsted performance related, which means that takes a teacher out of the classroom and having to do more data work, when what they want is to be teaching..and there is not enough budget given to replace this time with qualified teachers, so teaching assistants are taking classes more and although there are some highly qualified teaching assistants, that's ok for some Primary Schools but not for older children who might be facing exams ...why would any teacher choose to work in a 'failing school' with bad Ofsted results when they could do the same job/same grade and earn the same money in a school with good Ofsted results, which would mean their 'performance' and therefore their salary would most likely be higher and also maybe the job itself would be easier..?..

...there are schools closing everywhere and yet more money is spent in extending other schools while classroom resource budgets are just not enough, where is the sense in that..?..I don't believe in striking, I think it's a very negative thing and does have an effect on parents who need to take time off, it also means that teachers are forced to take that time off as well and lose their income for that day...but, if Ofsted requirements and all the Education Authority date requirements continue as they are, then it's going to cause a huge educational divide with some schools and children doing ok but the ones in poorer areas with low income families basically struggling for an education and that's just completely wrong...

..I also agree with Livia, they should just stop trying to fine families for taking their children on holiday in term time and it's those very families who are already financially stretched and not able to go anywhere in the school holidays who will eventually have to also face the fact that their children will be failed in the classroom as well/that very classroom that they are being fined for taking them out of..ironic....

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's not about being greedy Arista and I think you know that...'performance related increments' are nothing to do with performance in the classrooms, they are date/tracking/Ofsted performance related, which means that takes a teacher out of the classroom and having to do more data work, when what they want is to be teaching..and there is not enough budget given to replace this time with qualified teachers, so teaching assistants are taking classes more and although there are some highly qualified teaching assistants, that's ok for some Primary Schools but not for older children who might be facing exams ...why would any teacher choose to work in a 'failing school' with bad Ofsted results when they could do the same job/same grade and earn the same money in a school with good Ofsted results, which would mean their 'performance' and therefore their salary would most likely be higher and also maybe the job itself would be easier..?..

...there are schools closing everywhere and yet more money is spent in extending other schools while classroom resource budgets are just not enough, where is the sense in that..?..I don't believe in striking, I think it's a very negative thing and does have an effect on parents who need to take time off, it also means that teachers are forced to take that time off as well and lose their income for that day...but, if Ofsted requirements and all the Education Authority date requirements continue as they are, then it's going to cause a huge educational divide with some schools and children doing ok but the ones in poorer areas with low income families basically struggling for an education and that's just completely wrong...

..I also agree with Livia, they should just stop trying to fine families for taking their children on holiday in term time and it's those very families who are already financially stretched and not able to go anywhere in the school holidays who will eventually have to also face the fact that their children will be failed in the classroom as well/that very classroom that they are being fined for taking them out of..ironic....

Yes Ammi
Teaching has got to cut costs
Whoever is in power

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Ammi
Teaching has got to cut costs
Whoever is in power

..they don't cut costs though, they increase costs and cut education, which is why teaching staff are so disillusioned because most of them do have the children's interests at heart...

EDIT:..it costs twice as much to take a teacher out of his/her classroom and replace them with a supply who doesn't know the children at all...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..they don't cut costs though, they increase costs and cut education, which is why teaching staff are so disillusioned because most of them do have the children's interests at heart...

EDIT:..it costs twice as much to take a teacher out of his/her classroom and replace them with a supply who doesn't know the children at all...

Trust you to Complex It

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I don't think they're greedy Arista but I don't think they're as hard done to as they make out. I work as many hours, work from home when I'm not there and get paid less than a teacher who has been in the job as long as I have without the pension scheme they have....buti don't feel the need to walk out and lose money fighting a losing battle

Have you read any of Goves proposals for changes to teaching requirements for 'free' schools?
You can't equate your job with another and draw comparisons, do you assume teachers don't work from home?
Teachers pay into a pension throughout their career, you may not feel like it matters as it doesn't affect you or your family.. for those it does then I can appreciate it would be worth the battle.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have you read any of Goves proposals for changes to teaching requirements for 'free' schools?
You can't equate your job with another and draw comparisons, do you assume teachers don't work from home?
Teachers pay into a pension throughout their career, you may not feel like it matters as it doesn't affect you or your family.. for those it does then I can appreciate it would be worth the battle.

They pay into a preferential local government pension scheme not open to people who don't work in local government. Many retire early, as you'll know if you really do know all about it. It's been an unfair system for a long, long time.

Of course you can equate your job with teaching. Well, not you, exactly... but some people can.

You say Annie might not feel like it matters as it doesn't affect her family. But you're not a teacher, are you. So referring to your last sentence, why do you imagine you have this profound insight into this issue and only you can appreciate "the battle".

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

They pay into a preferential local government pension scheme not open to people who don't work in local government. Many retire early, as you'll know if you really do know all about it. It's been an unfair system for a long, long time.

Of course you can equate your job with teaching. Well, not you, exactly... but some people can.

You say Annie might not feel like it matters as it doesn't affect her family. But you're not a teacher, are you. So referring to your last sentence, why do you imagine you have this profound insight into this issue and only you can appreciate "the battle".

Yes I did know, and why is this so upsetting to some? They have educated themselves to such a standard that for the good of future generations they pass that on, and in return they receive a pension... Why does that stick in the craw of anyone? I don't know, I have teachers in my family that are stressed and struggling atm, it's hard to see and I empathise... it's a liberating emotion I recommend it..
I'll avoid your italics if I may, as it doesn't make your point any more valid.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes I did know, and why is this so upsetting to some? They have educated themselves to such a standard that for the good of future generations they pass that on, and in return they receive a pension... Why does that stick in the craw of anyone? I don't know, I have teachers in my family that are stressed and struggling atm, it's hard to see and I empathise... it's a liberating emotion I recommend it..
I'll avoid your italics if I may, as it doesn't make your point any more valid.

It doesn't stick in my craw. Filing clerks, dustmen, cleaners at the council get the same kind pension and they aren't usually accused of overeducating themselves. And that's the thing with teachers... people think they've educated themselves to such a standard that they are going to impart the knowledge to future generations. Fact is, they're pretty good at remembering ONE subject, they've hardly ever had experience of having a real job in the real world and yet they're going to prepare kids to do just that, live in the real world. it's laughable! Next you'll tell me having a degree makes you intelligent.

Yes I have teachers in my family too. But as you've picked me up on talking about any personal connection to ANY subject, I fail to see how your own personal connection is more relevant.

I empathise and feel liberated sometimes too, despite my busy schedule. But only when people deserve it.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have you read any of Goves proposals for changes to teaching requirements for 'free' schools?
You can't equate your job with another and draw comparisons, do you assume teachers don't work from home?
Teachers pay into a pension throughout their career, you may not feel like it matters as it doesn't affect you or your family.. for those it does then I can appreciate it would be worth the battle.

And why can I not equate my job to others and draw comparisons? Thats one thing that teachers are doing? They say for the hours they put in, they are making less money than a lot of manual workers. I am saying for the hours I put in I make less that a teacher. Exactly the same.

You also have no idea how it may/may not affect MY family so please don't try to assume how it would affect me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

And why can I not equate my job to others and draw comparisons? Thats one thing that teachers are doing? They say for the hours they put in, they are making less money than a lot of manual workers. I am saying for the hours I put in I make less that a teacher. Exactly the same.

You also have no idea how it may/may not affect MY family so please don't try to assume how it would affect me.

I said that as untill you are in the situation where you're faced with the prospect of having to act you may feel differently, I thought it was a little flippant and dismissive just to simplify it down to hours worked. It's quite obviously more complex than that.
You're assuming things annie, if you can do it we all can.
I don't like the way all sections of society are being steamrollered atm, education, health and welfare all the things implemented to protect us from the five giants, take them away and for our kids the future suddenly looks very bleak.