[kirklancaster]

Miley Cyrus

Trump said:

"...And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."

"Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

Miley said:

“Maybe it’s because of the villainous vibes that surround power and the poor examples of how too many leaders abuse it. Yes, that’s for Donald Trump.”

Disgusting! Good old Miley.

The very IDEA that some avaricious, fame-desperate women without morals will FREELY allow perverts to grope them and grab their pussies and breasts and private parts. It's 'sexual assault' whether those women were complicit or not.

OOPS Miley:

FOOTAGE HAS EMERGED OF MILEY CYRUS ALLOWING FANS TO GROPE HER PUSSY AND BREASTS DURING HER PERFORMANCE ON STAGE IN HER 2014 WRECKING BALL TOUR.

The singer was performing onstage during her Wrecking Ball tour in 2014 wearing a figure hugging silver thong leotard which gave her fans a very intimate view.

She allowed fans to grope her while she performed onstage before she struts off and performs the rest of her song.

NEXT WITNESS!

[Kizzy]

He was wrong, what he said was wrong, it's not only Miley Cyrus a woman you appear to infer has no right to comment due to a stage performance who thinks this....But millions across the free world, are you going to attempt to discredit them all?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He was wrong, what he said was wrong, it's not only Miley Cyrus a woman you appear to infer has no right to comment due to a stage performance who thinks this....But millions across the free world, are you going to attempt to discredit them all?

WHERE have I ever STATED that he was not wrong?

WHERE have I ever STATED that what he said was not wrong?

If you are going to continually CRITICALLY respond to my posts LEARN to READ - please.

Neither in this post nor in any others have I defended TRUMP, and I have made that clear enough in many related posts.

What I will not do though, is swallow the B.S bile which is ranged against Trump by those who purely HATE him, then regurgitate it across THIS or other forums - as some do - because it goes against my sense of justice and fair play.

I see a GREAT contradiction in your VIEWPOINTS in TRUMP BASHING and CORBYN BASHING.

I would gladly extend this same expose and condemnation of Corbyn's detractors if I could find any - after the GREATEST scrutiny - that WERE NOT JUSTIFIED.

Unfortunately, I cannot.

As to your question; 'am' I 'going to 'discredit them all' - NO - only the fake ones who are jumping on a bandwagon to win popularity, or, indeed those who have claimed 'historical sexual assault' against Trump who are PATENTLY lying.

Happy now that I have cleared this all up for you?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

WHERE have I ever STATED that he was not wrong?

WHERE have I ever STATED that what he said was not wrong?

If you are going to continually CRITICALLY respond to my posts LEARN to READ - please.

Neither in this post nor in any others have I defended TRUMP, and I have made that clear enough in many related posts.

What I will not do though, is swallow the B.S bile which is ranged against Trump by those who purely HATE him, then regurgitate it across THIS or other forums - as some do - because it goes against my sense of justice and fair play.

I see a GREAT contradiction in your VIEWPOINTS in TRUMP BASHING and CORBYN BASHING.

I would gladly extend this same expose and condemnation of Corbyn's detractors if I could find any - after the GREATEST scrutiny - that WERE NOT JUSTIFIED.

Unfortunately, I cannot.

As to your question; 'am' I 'going to 'discredit them all' - NO - only the fake ones who are jumping on a bandwagon to win popularity, or, indeed those who have claimed 'historical sexual assault' against Trump who are PATENTLY lying.

Happy now that I have cleared this all up for you?

Has Corbyn been accused of pussy grabbing now?... :/

As you've started using language like 'moral-less fame ******' to describe those who disagree with his comments I'll leave it here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Has Corbyn been accused of pussy grabbing now?... :/

As you've started using language like 'moral-less fame ******' to describe those who disagree with his comments I'll leave it here.

What ARE you talking about? Do you even KNOW yourself?

I have NEVER even alluded to this stupid remark.

[Ammi]

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

All of this.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

I am referring SPECIFICALLY to those women who ALLOWED Trump to grope them Ammi. If Cyrus ALLOWING her fans to grope her does not constitute 'sexual assault', then how does certain women who have ALLOWED Trump to grope them constitute 'sexual assault'?

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy of a powerful and wealthy celebrity who lambastes another powerful and wealthy celebrity for 'abusing their power' - groping of certain women inclusive - who then uses her power to ALLOW her private parts to be groped.

SHE had the POWER NOT to allow this very public groping. She chose not to, because, in my opinion - just like her very public 'twerking' and other unsavoury publicity-mindful stunts - they are keeping her in the limelight and keeping the dollars rolling in.

There is, therefore, a very real parallel here - in that certain women ALLOWED Trump to grope them in the hopes of fame and fortune ensuing, and Miley Cyrus allows fans to grope her because she knows that will prolong her notoriety and preserve her fame and fortune.

My post have NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether Trump is a sexual predator or misogynist or not - I have already stated that he is on other threads - but everything to do with fairness and justice, what is right and wrong - in my opinion.

And in my opinion, moral-less, money hungry, fame *****s such as Miley Cyrus, do not make credible witnesses on the questions of abuse of power or morality.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am referring SPECIFICALLY to those women who ALLOWED Trump to grope them Ammi. If Cyrus ALLOWING her fans to grope her does not constitute 'sexual assault', then how does certain women who have ALLOWED Trump to grope them constitute 'sexual assault'?

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy of a powerful and wealthy celebrity who lambastes another powerful and wealthy celebrity for 'abusing their power' - groping of certain women inclusive - who then uses her power to ALLOW her private parts to be groped.

SHE had the POWER NOT to allow this very public groping. She chose not to, because, in my opinion - just like her very public 'twerking' and other unsavoury publicity-mindful stunts - they are keeping her in the limelight and keeping the dollars rolling in.

There is, therefore, a very real parallel here - in that certain women ALLOWED Trump to grope them in the hopes of fame and fortune ensuing, and Miley Cyrus allows fans to grope her because she knows that will prolong her notoriety and preserve her fame and fortune.

My post have NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether Trump is a sexual predator or misogynist or not - I have already stated that he is on other threads - but everything to do with fairness and justice, what is right and wrong - in my opinion.

And in my opinion, moral-less, money hungry, fame *****s such as Miley Cyrus, do not make credible witnesses on the questions of abuse of power or morality.

..I'm sorry Kirk but it does feel a little like your 'fair and justice' is being quite selective with this and this thread about Miley...from the beginning of Trump time, music artist have used 'sexual' in their live performances...Elvis Presley for instance with his pelvic moves, which were a big part of who he was as an artist as well...and Miley's moves have become part of her as an artist...sexual is a big part of the music as well with many artists and always has been since the good old rock n roll days...but you're using words like unsavoury and questioning that she has a moral compass to criticise Donald Trump who was saying that his practise with females was sexual basically...that doesn't seem being fair and just to me, it does seem very judgemental of her../her live act etc...which is fine as well if it's how you feel but do you not see...it's a bit of a selective fair and just....anyone who doesn't practice sexual assault or has ever done is a 'credible witness' and so far as I'm aware, Miley hasn't....she has every right to question 'morality'....

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm sorry Kirk but it does feel a little like your 'fair and justice' is being quite selective with this and this thread about Miley...from the beginning of Trump time, music artist have used 'sexual' in their live performances...Elvis Presley for instance with his pelvic moves, which were a big part of who he was as an artist as well...and Miley's moves have become part of her as an artist...sexual is a big part of the music as well with many artists and always has been since the good old rock n roll days...but you're using words like unsavoury and questioning that she has a moral compass to criticise Donald Trump who was saying that his practise with females was sexual basically...that doesn't seem being fair and just to me, it does seem very judgemental of her../her live act etc...which is fine as well if it's how you feel but do you not see...it's a bit of a selective fair and just....anyone who doesn't practice sexual assault or has ever done is a 'credible witness' and so far as I'm aware, Miley hasn't....she has every right to question 'morality'....

I am an Elvis fan Ammi, and I have never seen one report or any footage showing Elvis allowing any fan to grope his manhood - and to me, THAT is EXACTLY what Miley Cyrus is doing in this clip.

Miley Cyrus has a huge amount of influence among the young people of the world, and all I am saying is that - judging by her very public conduct - she is less than qualified to be commenting upon anyone else's morals, especially from motives of 'Jump On The Bandwagon' 'Popularity Courting' for personal gain, as I firmly believe that she is.

By the way, I neither like or dislike her as an artiste.

My grouse is squarely on the unfairness of 'Witch Hunts' for the wrong reasons or lies, because there is enough to 'Hang' Trump for without suchlike.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am an Elvis fan Ammi, and I have never seen one report or any footage showing Elvis allowing any fan to grope his manhood - and to me, THAT is EXACTLY what Miley Cyrus is doing in this clip.

Miley Cyrus has a huge amount of influence among the young people of the world, and all I am saying is that - judging by her very public conduct - she is less than qualified to be commenting upon anyone else's morals, especially from motives of 'Jump On The Bandwagon' 'Popularity Courting' for personal gain, as I firmly believe that she is.

By the way, I neither like or dislike her as an artiste.

My grouse is squarely on the unfairness of 'Witch Hunts' for the wrong reasons or lies, because there is enough to 'Hang' Trump for without suchlike.

....it's still very much part of how sexual is interpreted in music live performances as well though Kirk...it doesn't have to directly equate to be something that through time (some and many artists) have and have had as part of their live acts but much like an actor when they play characters, it doesn't reflect anything about them morally...I know some Miley fans...( I actually only know a few Miley fans that I've spoken to before about her in the past...)...who love her/her music/her style/her performances etc but don't take any 'moral influence' in their lives from her whatsoever...no one is witch-hunting Donald Trump, Kirk...his reference to sexual assault being a code of his practice wasn't in the context of any type of character or performance or entertainment etc...it's his words, his character for saying those words and quite revealing of him as a person 'of power'...when he's going for the most powerful job in the world, this is all him...no one needs to witch hunt...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...'she allowed' herself to be touched by her fans, she invited it if that's what she did in her Wrecking Ball tour...sexual assault is all about non-consensual intimate touching ...there is no comparison at all to 'I don't even wait, I just grab them..'..non whatsoever because it's all about inferring non-consent in what he said he practised with females because he was a star...there is just no explanation that would make that a right thing to say and not very worrying....

All of this too for me, he was bragging about doing it without any invite or consent at all from whoever may be his selected targets.
Massive difference, in my view anyway.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

All of this too for me, he was bragging about doing it without any invite or consent at all from whoever may be his selected targets.
Massive difference, in my view anyway.

Why don't you expound on your view Joey - as a solicitor - I would be interested to know what you think to 'Trial by Media'? of someone who has yet to be charged with any of these alleged sexual assaults, and what you think to allegation without evidence?

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why don't you expound on your view Joey - as a solicitor - I would be interested to know what you think to 'Trial by Media'? of someone who has yet to be charged with any of these alleged sexual assaults, and what you think to allegation without evidence?

Remember what they did to Cliff Richard? Guilty as charged until proven innocent apparently... is this the new standard these days?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why don't you expound on your view Joey - as a solicitor - I would be interested to know what you think to 'Trial by Media'? of someone who has yet to be charged with any of these alleged sexual assaults, and what you think to allegation without evidence?

Donald Trump's campaign plans to go 'buck wild' and paint Bill Clinton 'as Bill Cosby'

I heard the same thing being said on media outlets just before the 2nd debate. It looks like Clinton team got there first and are just better at this kind of thing.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Donald Trump's campaign plans to go 'buck wild' and paint Bill Clinton 'as Bill Cosby'

I heard the same thing being said on media outlets just before the 2nd debate. It looks like Clinton team got there first and are just better at this kind of thing.

I totally agree - THAT is EXACTLY what I think has happened.

But this does not alter the facts, that this is NOT how Presidential Elections should be fought.

And I do not think that the allegations so suddenly being made against Trump by these women are as 'cut and dried' as the Media would have us believe.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why don't you expound on your view Joey - as a solicitor - I would be interested to know what you think to 'Trial by Media'? of someone who has yet to be charged with any of these alleged sexual assaults, and what you think to allegation without evidence?

Actually Kirk, and you should know this anyway from my anger at the treatment of Cliff Richard as to the media.

I hate trial by media and while you are right he has not been charged with anything, 'yet', and possibly may of course never be.
However we all heard he himself state in his own words that he has done this and acted this way, even towards married Women too, not that being married or single as any relevance
So by his own mouth he admits doing or showed intent on doing same.
As to evidence or lack of it, well he himself stated he did this,if he was being honest about that, little more as to more evidence other than victims coming forward are needed.

If he was only bragging to seem big and supposedly clever, then he has failed on both counts and only looks really disgusting for even publicly thinking that way and expressing same.
He also actually looks rather stupid too, if he was not being serious, again in my view.

The point still is, he claims to have done this without Womens consent or even knowledge,
A far cry from Miley Cyrus inviting it at a stage performance.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Actually Kirk, and you should know this anyway from my anger at the treatment of Cliff Richard as to the media.

I hate trial by media and while you are right he has not been charged with anything, 'yet', and possibly may of course never be.
However we all heard he himself state in his own words that he has done this and acted this way, even towards married Women too, not that being married or single as any relevance
So by his own mouth he admits doing or showed intent on doing same.
As to evidence or lack of it, well he himself stated he did this,if he was being honest about that, little more as to more evidence other than victims coming forward are needed.

If he was only bragging to seem big and supposedly clever, then he has failed on both counts and only looks really disgusting for even publicly thinking that way and expressing same.
He also actually looks rather stupid too, if he was not being serious, again in my view.

The point still is, he claims to have done this without Womens consent or even knowledge,
A far cry from Miley Cyrus inviting it at a stage performance.

I was not having a go at you Joey - your stance on the Cliff case was exactly as mine, which is why I asked you to expound on your differing view here.

I do not GENUINELY KNOW if Trump is guilty of being a sexual predator or not, but I just know when something is not right, and there is so much with this affair which does not sit right.

Thank you for responding and welcome back.

[kirklancaster]

I have genuinely been 'taken aback' by some of the hostile and very personal reaction on here just because I am honestly proffering a different view - something which is the very purpose of a forum surely?

Perhaps, I should merely start posting statements which I do not believe but which I know will be popular?

Sorry, I cannot do that.

Nothing is Black and White in this world, and I find it greatly ironic, that some of those who are the most vociferous in decrying the Media when the target may be Corbyn or an appeal to the Electorate to vote for Brexit, are the first to succumb without question to the Media when its target is Trump -- a man whom they detest anyway.

Well, sorry, I cannot help questioning.

So while some of my former friends on here are digesting what I have already written, or vomiting because of it, I will move on to the real reason why I started this thread - the witnesses proper, or Plaintiffs as it soon may be.

Summer Zervos

Zervos was on the fifth season of the The Apprentice in 2006.

She appeared at a press conference in Los Angeles on Friday the 14th of October 2016, with her Attorney - Gloria Allred - and alleged that during her time on the Apprentice (2006), Trump had lured her to his bungalow and sexually assaulted her:

"He put me in an embrace and I tried to push him away. I pushed his chest to put space between us and I said, 'Come on man, get real.' He repeated my words back to me, 'Get real,' as he began thrusting his genitals."

Well, that is version 1 which has been reported.

Here's version 2. :

In this reported version, Zervos claimed at the press conference that Donald Trump groped her during an employment meeting in 2007.

Ms Zervos claims that she contacted Mr Trump regarding an employment opportunity and was denied a meeting over lunch. She was then asked to meet him at his hotel in Beverly Hills.

She says that when she arrived, he kissed her on the lips and he said he’d love to work with her. He asked her to lie down on the bed and that he began “thrusting his genitals." She says that she made it clear that she was turning down his advances and he eventually began discussing business with her.

“As I was about to leave, he again kissed me on the lips,” Ms Zervos explained. “This made me feel nervous and embarrassed this is not what I wanted or expected.”

One year apart, different locations and one sexual assault committed by Trump whilst she was voluntarily lying on the bed which Trump had asked her to do.

A strange request and even stranger compliance given that it was a 'business meeting' which she had attended for, and that Trump had already kissed her on the lips without permission.

Also very strange how Zervos allowed herself to be maneuvered into the bedroom after already being kissed by Trump without consent, for one would presume that a man like Trump does not reside in one room bedsit type hotel accommodation.

It must be borne in mind that this was no timid country girl fresh into the big city, Zervos was already then, bright and relatively sophisticated.

Q: Would you go into a bedroom with Trump when you were supposed to be having a 'Business Meeting', and meekly lie down on the bed when asked, after he had kissed you on your mouth without consent?

But, anyway:

No sooner had Ms Zervos made her press conference allegations, her own cousin - issued a statement saying that he was 'shocked' by her claims:

John Barry - who is said to be 'close to her' said:

"I am completely shocked and bewildered by my cousin, Summer Zervos, and her press conference today. Ever since she was on The Apprentice she has had nothing but glowing things to say about Mr. Trump,” the statement reads.

Barry said that Zervos frequently described Trump as kind and an inspiration to her professionally, and that she “converted her friends and our family to become Trump supporters.”

“That was until Summer invited Mr. Trump to her restaurant during the primary and he said no. I think Summer wishes she could still be on reality TV, and in an effort to get that back she’s saying all of these negative things about Mr. Trump,” the statement continued.

“That’s not how she talked about him before. I can only imagine that Summer’s actions today are nothing more than an attempt to regain the spotlight at Mr. Trump’s expense, and I don’t think it reflects well.”

Further research shows that Zervos did indeed voluntarily contact Trump TWICE after the alleged assault, because the Trump campaign released an email from Zervos to Trump's secretary dated April 14, 2016, in which Zervos talks about her California restaurant and says she hopes to reconnect with the GOP nominee.

“Mr. Trump has a great deal of support in Huntington Beach, Ca!” she wrote. “He has witnessed both my highs and lows operating a small business and I am pleased to report business is good.”

She then added: “I would greatly appreciate reconnecting at this time. He will know my intentions are genuine.”

Q: Would you voluntarily seek another 'Business Meeting' with Trump after he had already sexually assaulted you several times during your first 'Business Meeting'?

Q: Would you word your email in such a way as that above?

After Trump IGNORED her first email, on the 21st April 2016 - just one week after her first email, and hardly allowing time for such a busy high flier as Trump to respond - Zervos then sent a further email with a request that it be delivered DIRECTLY to Trump.

She wrote:

"In that email, I stated, 'Your interest in me as a potential employee meant the world to me. Your interest in me as anything more blew my mind, and I lost my footing.' I further said, 'I have been incredibly hurt by our previous interaction.' I ended by stating, 'I hope to hear from you and wish you continued success.”

Trump NEVER replied.

'Blew My Mind' and 'Lost My Footing' are really curious expressions to use in an email appeal to a man who has repeatedly sexually assaulted you to describe the effects on you of the assaults - far more curious than, say, 'Shocked and upset me' and 'I was afraid and bewildered'.

In fact the phrase; 'Blew my mind' can mean 'to mentally disturb', but the more common usage today is to describe being 'overwhelmed with excitement or pleasure'.

Similarly, the phrase 'Lost my footing' is often used by authors in descriptive passages concerning love and obsession. Lolita author Vladimir Nabokov was fond of the phrase and used it in his 'Letters to Véra' in a passage about very obsessional love.

Q: Would you use such phrases to describe the effects on you of the sexual assaults he perpetrated against you?

Now, I am not Donald trump or Ms Zervos, and I do not know what really transpired between them, but I do know when something is not quite as it is being sold to us by the Media, and apart from the fact that NOWHERE does Ms Zernos seem to have complained about Trump Sexually Assaulting her until now — a few short weeks before the Presidential Election - is the fact that she voluntarily sent to Trump TWO emails virtually begging him for another 'Business Meeting' just a few short months ago.

I also doubt that because of the above, Ms Zervos cannot claim that she was timid and too afraid to say anything but was bolstered by the other women coming forward.

So shoot me if you want for questioning beyond the headlines as I ALWAYS do, but I'm sorry - something about this particular case does not sit right with me.

Here is Trump's denial:

Q: Based on the current state-of-information, do you feel that if Zervos litigates against Trump, that she stads a good chance of winning?

[Withano]

Donald Trump bragged about groping other women, Miley Cyrus danced at the end of the stage towards other people who already had their hands in the air and hopefully didnt intend on groping her. The whole thing lasted less than three seconds.

This is painfully incomparable. You could compare Donald to one of the people in the crowd If you really wanted to push an agenda.

There is no contradiction between a woman who doesnt like men groping unwilling women simply because she danced near people at a concert.

Its kinda of like me saying i dont like men who slap people and then you showing a video of a someone putting their hand on my face and calling it a contradiction

What a ****ing stupid thread. I know you keep saying you dont care for Trump, its difficult to believe you when you twisted a scene in to whatever this is though.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

Donald Trump bragged about groping other women, Miley Cyrus danced at the end of the stage towards other people who already had their hands in the air and hopefully didnt intend on groping her. The whole thing lasted less than three seconds.

This is painfully incomparable. You could compare Donald to one of the people in the crowd If you really wanted to push an agenda.

There is no contradiction between a woman who doesnt like men groping unwilling women simply because she danced near people at a concert.

Its kinda of like me saying i dont like men who slap people and then you showing a video of a someone putting their hand on my face and calling it a contradiction

What a ****ing stupid thread. I know you keep saying you dont care for Trump, its difficult to believe you when you twisted a scene in to whatever this is though.

You may regard it as a 'stupid thread, as may some others - because it does not dovetail neatly into your 'all or nothing' 'Black or White' distorted view of the world.

Some others on here may disagree with you.

Incidentally - how do you KNOW that Trump's alleged 'groping' did not also last 3 seconds or even less?

Your interpretation of that video is totally denialist if you think that 'people had their hands in the air and Miley's pussy merely came into accidental contact with them' if that is what you are trying to claim.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You may regard it as a 'stupid thread, as may some others - because it does not dovetail neatly into your 'all or nothing' 'Black or White' distorted view of the world.

Some others on here may disagree with you.

Right, but this really is nothing. You're disregarding a womans thought on sexual assault (disgusting by the way, not the point im making but still grim of you) simply because there is three seconds of footage of her dancing into a crowd of hands at her concert. This is the biggest piece of nothing i've ever read.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Incidentally - how do you KNOW that Trump's alleged 'groping' did not also last 3 seconds or even less?

Your interpretation of that video is totally denialist if you think that 'people had their hands in the air and Miley's pussy merely came into accidental contact with them' if that is what you are trying to claim.

Can you google sexual assault, learn what it is and notice the difference here.

And none of us have any evidence to show that the bottom paragraph isnt completely true.

That isnt even where the pussy is ffs but the screenshot is the closest anyone got to it.

[Withano]

Even in your eyes Miley let herself be groped for 3 seconds (that isnt what happened but for arguments sake, lets say it is). That is multitudes different to any person groping an unwilling person for three seconds (more likely, a lot longer than this, but for arguments sake).

That is the complete difference of consent and assault. Youve disregarded Mileys thoughts on assault because youve seen her give consent.

This thread is completely grim. Almost perpetuating rape culture and sounding like a meninist with an agenda.

"Mileys not allowed to dislike assault cos heres three secs of her fans with their hands on her body" get out.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

Even in your eyes Miley let herself be groped for 3 seconds (that isnt what happened but for arguments sake, lets say it is). That is multitudes different to any person groping an unwilling person for three seconds (more likely, a lot longer than this, but for arguments sake).

That is the complete difference of consent and assault. Youve disregarded Mileys thoughts on assault because youve seen her give consent.

This thread is completely grim. Almost perpetuating rape culture and sounding like a meninist with an agenda.

"Mileys not allowed to dislike assault cos heres three secs of her fans with their hands on her body" get out.

I am grossly offended by your uncalled for allegations that this thread perpetuates 'rape culture' AND your allusions that I am some 'menalist with an agenda' because there is NOTHING which I have written that would justify such disgusting comments.

You see Withano - your posts seem full of anger, perhaps because you detest Trump with a vengeance, but with blind hatred, objectivity is all too often lost.

You are NOT really addressing the points which I am ACTUALLY making in my posts, but more rather addressing what you THINK I am saying in my posts, and I believe that is because you have lost emotional detachment because of the subject matter.

You need to calm down, read and absorb what I am saying, and not allow your own prejudices to superimpose what you angrily feel I am saying onto my actual words.

I have NEVER posted to court popularity, only posted what I believe, and I have all too often been unfairly 'hung, drawn, and quartered' on here as a result.

But I am a great believer in ALL aspects of Freedom - Freedom Of Speech AND Freedom of Choice being two very important types.

I have the Freedom of Speech to open a thread on any subject I want to, and you have The Freedom of Choice NOT to subscribe to it.

I suggest Withano, if this thread upsets you so much, and you deem it so "fecking stupid" and "grim", then do not subscribe to it.