[Redway]

There was that thread about pansexuality the other time but what does everyone think about actual gender identity - binary or non-?

[Withano]

This is gonna be another thread of people claiming there are only 2 genders and then confusing gender for sex again, isn’t it

[Greg!]

I'm fine with people dressing as they want and defying gender norms etc but I just feel it takes the piss when people go "I am gender-fluid and my pronouns are xi" or whatever.

[Vicky.]

Everyone is non-binary, really. There are as many 'genders' as there are personalities.

[ethanjames]

honestly why not sometimes its a bit ridiculous but if someone does identify as somewhere on the spectrum who am i to judge

[Oliver_W]

Nah, there are obviously two genders. Gender and sex are different; gender is best described as your "internal sense of self" or "the sex of your brain", while sex is whether you are biologically male or female. If there's a convincing argument out there as to why there are more than two genders, I've yet to hear it. I know some old cultures believed in there being more than two, but they believed in all kinds of crazy stuff...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Nah, there are obviously two genders. Gender and sex are different; gender is best described as your "internal sense of self" or "the sex of your brain", while sex is whether you are biologically male or female. If there's a convincing argument out there as to why there are more than two genders, I've yet to hear it. I know some old cultures believed in there being more than two, but they believed in all kinds of crazy stuff...

You just answered your own post there really. If 'gender' is your internal sense of self, then obviously there are more than 2...as everyone has a different internal sense of self. hence, there are as many genders as personalities

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm not losing much sleep over this tbh

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

You just answered your own post there really. If 'gender' is your internal sense of self, then obviously there are more than 2...as everyone has a different internal sense of self. hence, there are as many genders as personalities

I don't see it. Everyone has a different mind, this much is true. But that doesn't mean every different personality is a different gender. Heck, there's even a limited number of personality types, and psychologists can fairly accurately predict how people will react in different circumstances based on those.
People like to think they're unique, but at the end of the day we're just animals, lumps of biology. There's just nothing scientific to point to there being more than two genders.

[Vicky.]

Gender is basically just what sex stereotypes you follow + personality IMO.

I mean, under the many gender labels at the moment I come under a-gender mostly...as I do not have an 'internal sense of being male or female', I don't 'feel like a woman' I just feel like...me. However, when I speak to genderists, they tell me that no, I cannot be agender, I am cis. Why? (I know why really..its because it makes them less special if its more common) I also pretty much fit the description for gender queer, and also non-binary.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Gender is basically just what sex stereotypes you follow + personality IMO.

Which sex stereotypes "count"? Would a man who's a caring single parent and who works part time as nurse and bangs men while his kids are at granny's house secretly be female, even if he didn't identify as such?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Which sex stereotypes "count"? Would a man who's a caring single parent and who works part time as nurse and bangs men while his kids are at granny's house secretly be female, even if he didn't identify as such?

Well seemingly, only aesthetic stuff. From what I have gathered by reading far too many blogs and articles and such on the subject

And yes, some would claim that bloke was trans. Like whats happening now with a fair few people being posthumously trans-ed even though they never 'identified' as the opposite sex

[Northern Monkey]

Don’t get the poll options tbh.

Male and Female are sex descriptors.

I understand that a man can feel like a woman so his ‘gender’ would be woman but ‘she’d’ still be male.

Not sure about ‘non-binary’.I can get on board with that more than ‘gender fluid’

[Oliver_W]

MtF transwomen will always be biologically male, and FtM transmen will always be biologically female, but that has little to do with there being two genders. It's just their brain thinks they're the opposite.

Our brains have "maps" of our bodies - for example, we know our feet are even when we can't see them. Transwomen's mental maps are (apparently) that of a biological female, which is why they feel like their bodies aren't their own.

[user104658]

There are three or at most four, not countless. Gender and sex are not the same thing, however, the concept of gender is rooted in the concept of male/female roles and character traits. So there can't be more than 4.

- Male
- Female
- "A-gendered" (i.e. not associating with either, showing no inclination towards aspects of either)

Then arguably

- "Changeable", which would be someone who adopts different gender characteristics dependent on the situation they're in at the time.


To be honest, I think the vast majority of people do fall into that last category though... And the ones who can't, it tends to because they're not massively comfortable / confident with their individuality, and thus feel inclined to cling hard to predefined character tropes.

[user104658]

I don't see the need for countless pronouns however. It's not practical. It entirely defeats the basic purpose OF a pronoun.

Asking friends / family to use a "preferred" pronoun is obviously fine / no one else's business, but for the "world in general" it really has to either simply align with general appearance, or at most, default to "they" / "them".