[UserSince2005]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think it's inappropriate for men to comment on this particular issue as it is not something that affects them.

Yeah like white people should ignore BLM

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Why cut out women, the person who menstruates no longer wants to be one!

Women aren’t being cut out, the term includes women and people who identify as something else, but still menstruate

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Women aren’t being cut out, the term includes women and people who identify as something else, but still menstruate

Don’t tell me how I should feel Mr Man

[Ammi]

...they are for people who menstruate...I mean, being progressive and inclusive etc is a good and positive thing...I’ve seen lots of positive stuff on Twitter with this, which is encouraging......it often seems to be the DM ‘pushing issues’ ...and trying to make them a thing’...

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/s...-a4540671.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ducts-22630029

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/li...-debate/04/09/

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Don’t tell me how I should feel Mr Man

That’s Mr. Person with a penis to you!

[Oliver_W]

What's the point in changing things like that, only women can menstrate women who identify as men often still menstrate, and men who identify as men obviously don't.

[user104658]

"If they said women it would alienate trans men!!!"

"Saying people who mentruate instead of women is gender erasure!!!!"

WOW so stuck, such problem, what do? Impossible to please everyone I just can't think of...

Oh wait you could just leave that entire ****ing paragraph off the back of the box and it would make absolutely no difference to the product, and no one would care, at all.

They put it there because they knew it would generate free advertising. Pff.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yet you seem quite happy to alienate a section of people, is that equal?

Originally Posted by Liam-

Also I’m pretty sure, if you asked pre-op trans women, I’d imagine writing on the back of a box would be the last thing on their minds

So, is it trivial or is it alienation?

This is, kind of, my problem with the debate. Women are told to stop getting offended or for caring too much about trivial matters like "words on a box" whilst simultaneously being told that trivial matters like "words on a box" are alienating trans people. So, effectively, trans people can take issue with words they find degrading or erasing, but cis women can't. It's a double standard.

[Kizzy]

Why are condoms called male condoms?

You don't have to be male to use one.

It just seems to me there is some kind of drive to have 'women' taken off everything.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So, is it trivial or is it alienation?

This is, kind of, my problem with the debate. Women are told to stop getting offended or for caring too much about trivial matters like "words on a box" whilst simultaneously being told that trivial matters like "words on a box" are alienating trans people. So, effectively, trans people can take issue with words they find degrading or erasing, but cis women can't. It's a double standard.

Well not really, my point was nobody is actually asking for these things to be done, but people’s reaction to it being done shows that they are indeed perfectly fine with the idea of certain people not being represented or included imo.

It’s like the equivalent of the strawman of angry flag wavers being mad at black people, for the bbc choosing not to sing a song.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Well not really, my point was nobody is actually asking for these things to be done, but people’s reaction to it being done shows that they are indeed perfectly fine with the idea of certain people not being represented or included imo.

It’s like the equivalent of the strawman of angry flag wavers being mad at black people, for the bbc choosing not to sing a song.

Not really an equivalent. Stopping racist actions against minorities has no effect on white people. It helps to move towards equality.

Forcing a change in language women can use about themselves because a minority of people find it excludes them is simultaneously telling one group their feelings on language used to refer to them matters more than the other. That's unequal and a double standard.

[Amy Jade]

Why are people honestly bothered?

So long as it does it's job who gives a **** what it says on the box?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not really an equivalent. Stopping racist actions against minorities has no effect on white people. It helps to move towards equality.

Forcing a change in language women can use about themselves because a minority of people find it excludes them is simultaneously telling one group their feelings on language used to refer to them matters more than the other. That's unequal and a double standard.

Nobody is saying women can’t call themselves women, inclusivity is in no way ‘erasure’ or an attempt to silence or eradicate women

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Nobody is saying women can’t call themselves women, inclusivity is in no way ‘erasure’ or an attempt to silence or eradicate women

"People who mentruate" in the context used on the box is a stupid and somewhat pointed phrasing, though, since - as I pointed out above - you don't actually "need" the paragraph it's in at all. It can be inclusive by simply not saying either. Choosing to include the stock-phrase "people who menstruate" - one that has already been gathering negative feedback - STRONGLY suggests that they're using it deliberately for free publicity.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Well not really, my point was nobody is actually asking for these things to be done, but people’s reaction to it being done shows that they are indeed perfectly fine with the idea of certain people not being represented or included imo.

It’s like the equivalent of the strawman of angry flag wavers being mad at black people, for the bbc choosing not to sing a song.

If nobody asked for it to be done why is it, if you're against this you're that same as racists? Nah...

These are for people with a female reproductive system, that's just a fact, it's not highlighted to offend anyone.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Nobody is saying women can’t call themselves women, inclusivity is in no way ‘erasure’ or an attempt to silence or eradicate women

The daft clapback to the use of the word "woman" to describe a born woman suggests otherwise.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So, is it trivial or is it alienation?

This is, kind of, my problem with the debate. Women are told to stop getting offended or for caring too much about trivial matters like "words on a box" whilst simultaneously being told that trivial matters like "words on a box" are alienating trans people. So, effectively, trans people can take issue with words they find degrading or erasing, but cis women can't. It's a double standard.

[Withano]

Terfs are the biggest snowflakes out there

Imagine there’s a 13 year old boy out there somewhere who obviously has not had any surgery and has started menstruating. Products like these would mean the world to him. Butthurt fully grown women with zero sympathy for people going through tougher times than them.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If nobody asked for it to be done why is it, if you're against this you're that same as racists? Nah...

These are for people with a female reproductive system, that's just a fact, it's not highlighted to offend anyone.

Did I say you were the same as racists? I said the template of the argument is the same, company does something off their own backs, people get mad at the people not asking for it to be done, it’s how the entire ‘culture war’ is stoked

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The daft clapback to the use of the word "woman" to describe a born woman suggests otherwise.

What?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

What?

What?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Did I say you were the same as racists? I said the template of the argument is the same, company does something off their own backs, people get mad at the people not asking for it to be done, it’s how the entire ‘culture war’ is stoked

Not really. The debate over the use of the word woman has been going long before this brand decided to do this.

They decided to do this for the publicity of what is already a big controversy, with the JK Rowling stories amongst others.

Extreme trans activists are doing more harm than ever to the trans community IMO.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not really. The debate over the use of the word woman has been going long before this brand decided to do this.

They decided to do this for the publicity of what is already a big controversy, with the JK Rowling stories amongst others.

Extreme trans activists are doing more harm than ever to the trans community IMO.

yep

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Withano

Terfs are the biggest snowflakes out there

Imagine there’s a 13 year old boy out there somewhere who obviously has not had any surgery and has started menstruating. Products like these would mean the world to him. Butthurt fully grown women with zero sympathy for people going through tougher times than them.

Terf now?...it gets better.

Why would the wording on the box prevent him using them? .. or in some magical way lessen the trauma he is facing?... it wouldn't you're projecting your opinion to demonise anyone who has a counter view on this. Who, if you've noticed are not all women, if you checked your own prejudice you'd see that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

13 year old boys dont menstruate

was that a typo?