[Mrluvaluva]

The home town of Garry Newlove, who was beaten to death by drunken yobs, is plagued by alcohol-fuelled violence - and Sky News has witnessed the scale of the problem.

Chief correspondent Stuart Ramsay went to the heart of Warrington and what he saw was shocking - yet seemingly typical. Here is his account:

Just after 2.30 in the morning I hear shouting about 100 yards from the intersection where I've been standing for about the past half hour.

Five police officers sprint down the road, followed by the Sky News team.

We have spent the night on patrol with 16 officers whose sole job on this Saturday night is to be a rapid reaction squad if violence breaks out... actually, it's not really if - but a certain when.

At least six separate battles are going on - men on men, girls on girls, girls on boys and so on. In the middle, a silver-haired woman, probably in her mid-60s, is lying motionless in the road.

The police pile in and after a while things calm down.

One person is arrested but confusion reigns.

At the time we didn't realise this was a fight about a taxi. An elderly couple apparently tried to jump the queue in front of a young couple. There was pushing from both sides and the lady was knocked to the ground. That's when the others joined in.

But forget what sparked the incident - there is absolutely no doubt that what caused the fighting was one single thing - alcohol.

Warrington has great nightlife and it is really good fun.

It is compact, there are dozens of bars, there are loads of young girls and boys and the booze is cheap - ridiculously cheap. At one bar we went to every drink was £1.50 - any drink.

The bars are really clubs but that's how they trade since the change in the licensing laws. They're hopping and they open early and close late.

The spread is quite clever, really. From the top of town they start closing from about 1am. At the bottom of the town, they close at about six.

So, serious party animals can get completely tanked from the nominal start time of about six in the evening until the immodest end time 12 hours later.

In truth, it's utterly bonkers and the police are completely at a loss about what to do to sort it out.

"This is a quiet night and we have had multiple arrests, two serious assaults, lots of fights and virtually everyone you see would actually fail the basic law that says it is illegal to be intoxicated in a public place," Inspector Richard Spedding, in charge of the overnight team, told me.

"What can I do? My officers used to finish their shift at three - now we can go on until six in the morning and then the domestic violence starts when the people get home.

"There has to be a change in the culture and the attitude of young people - that going out doesn't mean its cool to get absolutely bladdered," he said.

"It's expensive and it's a waste of my officers' time - we have to be here but we shouldn't have to be.

"The alcohol is too cheap. The clubs are undercutting each other. I simply don't believe the people of Warrington thought this would be a good thing - but this is what's happened after the laws changed."

While most of the youngsters we saw and spoke to did nothing wrong, how many mums and dads would like to see the state the vast majority ended up in?

In one four-hour period I did not meet one single person who was sober.

Most could not actually speak.


Original article here

What do you think?
Should the price of alcohol be increased?
Tougher licensing laws?
Increase the age limit on the consumption of alcohol?
Stiffer penalties on offenders?

I would like to hear your views.

[~Kizwiz~]

going on personal experience are we????

[MarkWaldorf]

I think so. Especially where I live. When ever I'm in town at nights they're always crawling out of pubs and creating havoc. I don't have anything against them though.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by ~kizwiz~
going on personal experience are we????

The pot calls the kettle black! You are only jealous. This is a serious debate!

[~Kizwiz~]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva

The pot calls the kettle black! You are only jealous. This is a serious debate!

Jealous??? I am half way there right now

But seriously, I dont do the drunken thing and I havent for years. The last place I lived was Bristol and I avoided the city centre like the plague. Kicking out time was a mass of drunken seals.

Todays society binge drinking is getting worse and they thought that 24 drinking would get people to drink responsibly!!! Like thats going to happen. I have been brought up with wine at the table, I was always allowed some with my sunday dinner... just a little with a bit of lemonade but it taught me that its not to be abused.

[Mrluvaluva]

That is one of the reasons I thought later licensing laws might work. Everyone wouldn't be spilling out of the pubs and bars at 11.20. It would be more controlled. But they are just staying later!

[~Kizwiz~]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
That is one of the reasons I thought later licensing laws might work. Everyone wouldn't be spilling out of the pubs and bars at 11.20. It would be more controlled. But they are just staying later!

Spot on..... it doesnt cure the problem just extends the hours!

Peoples association with booze needs to change, its a social thing but most, instead of using it to get merry and enjoy themselves, get so tanked up they cant remember what happened the night before even if their head wasnt pounding.

[secrets]

i live in a very small town and no way would i wander the centre at night alone.
the drunkin louts are so scary and spewing up all over the place.

i dont think putting the price of alcohol up would make a jot of difference,and why should most of us have to pay more for the sake of a few.?

frankly i believe the problems start in the home........taught no manners or respect,families never sitting at a table together ....its all become to casual and kids think its the norm to be loud mouthed and nasty.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by secrets
i dont think putting the price of alcohol up would make a jot of difference,and why should most of us have to pay more for the sake of a few.?

On one hand I agree. Why should I have to pay more for the sake of drunken louts? But does the cheap prices some places charge make it too accessible?

[~Kizwiz~]

Originally posted by secrets

frankly i believe the problems start in the home........taught no manners or respect,families never sitting at a table together ....its all become to casual and kids think its the norm to be loud mouthed and nasty.

You couldnt have put it better.... morals, manners and common sense!

I bring my kids up the way my mum brought me up. P's and Q's, be helpful and to be kind to others because you may want the same one day.

[Tom]

I think wherever there is alcohol, then violence will follow. People are either happy or aggressive when drunk, and I think at some point everyone who is drunk and out will end up in a fight. Its just a fact of life and the only way to get rid of it is to ban alcohol.

[~Kizwiz~]

Your right Tom, is does depend on what sort of person alcohol make you. But different types of alcohol turns people into different people.

Take me for example, beer sends me dopey, red wine sends me gobby and I am always right, where as vodka or tequila interferes with my brain and changes me into someone who doesnt give a damn and nothing will stop me.

Now combine all of those and you have a dangerous cocktail

[Mrluvaluva]

My dad gets really violent on Gin. He can never drink it. Once was enough. Lol. He nearly beat up a guy. It shows you how different drinks can affect you as Kiz says.

[Matt10k]

It certainly is here. Was on a night out last friday, ended up really p*ssed and stayed out even though all my friends were going home (typical me really).

Anyway... long story short, ended up getting jumped by 4 guys, stole my phone, ended up with a right black eye… looked a right state. It's gone down now but I was thinking of going into A&E because I was getting bad pains around my left kidney so i've obviously been booted there! Managed to get up off the floor and got away but it could have been worse.

So i'm not sure if all areas are the same but I see a lot of things like this where I live. Fights breaking out etc... Still, on the upside, I did manage to get a couple of really good punches on one guy before getting knocked to the floor!

(I was going to start a topic on this but chickened out!)

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Matt10k
(I was going to start a topic on this but chickened out!)

Why? You could make a good topic out of that I think. Glad you are ok. Some people are animals after a few drinks. Glad you got a couple of punches in!

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva

Why? You could make a good topic out of that I think. Glad you are ok. Some people are animals after a few drinks. Glad you got a couple of punches in!

Thanks. I'm not sure why. I was pretty depressed about it for a couple of days. Afraid I was pretty pathetic in the fight, I'd have been much better if I wasn't completely plastered!

It p*sses me off that there are people like this around. The area I live in is slightly better, just a few miles up the road but my sister lives around there.

Her car has been attacked a few times- her wing mirror got smashed (and it was the side at the path so obviously not a car). It's pathetic.

Parts of the uk are just going to sh*t and people like this are to blame. I'm not really sure what the answer is though.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Matt10k
I'm not really sure what the answer is though.

We don't have one. Nobody does, but there surely must be some ways of curbing this behaviour? Banning it will send it underground. The lengthening of the licensing hours clearly hasn't worked. I live in London where the prices in bars are pretty high, and they reckon the price of a pint could hit £4 this year. I know it puts me off going out drinking in the West End. This will only put more bars out of business though as more customers stay away. Is increasing the prices the death of the pub? And what about the affects of the resources of A&E on a weekend for example?

[secrets]

Originally posted by ~kizwiz~

You couldnt have put it better.... morals, manners and common sense!

I bring my kids up the way my mum brought me up. P's and Q's, be helpful and to be kind to others because you may want the same one day.

good for you.....its an absolute delight to see kids being nice,and dont they just shine.

[Jackie]

Originally posted by ~kizwiz~

You couldnt have put it better.... morals, manners and common sense!

I bring my kids up the way my mum brought me up. P's and Q's, be helpful and to be kind to others because you may want the same one day.

I agree it's the parents fault they're not bothered where their kids are at night some just want their kids out of the way.My two teenage girls have never drank alchol and hang about the streets being violent.

[Dr43%er]

I like a beer and I know I drink too much. The simple fact is, like most drugs it make you feel good. I like the feeling of being drunk. I think pricing is a big issue. In Leicester the pubs where the beer is next to nothing (£1.70 for a Stella. ish) is where the fighting will be. On High Street you have 3 dirt cheap fight pubs. Sandwiched in between you have the Orange tree. It is expensive (for Leicester) It will be around £3-3.50 for a premium larger. Guess what, there is no fighting. Even though it is rammed and people are drinking lots. It just attracts a better level of clientèle rather than the brain dead scum.

[Mrluvaluva]

I think that higher prices keep the troublemakers away mainly, but is that the answer? Why should we all have to pay higher prices? If I go in my local by work, it costs £10 for 2 large drinks. And it gets even more expensive than that.

[Dr43%er]

I am not saying we should have to pay more. I chose too. I don't want them to force the cheap pubs to raise their prices. The scum may start coming in to my pubs if there is no price difference. Let the scum drink with the scum and fight with the scum.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Tom_
I think wherever there is alcohol, then violence will follow. People are either happy or aggressive when drunk, and I think at some point everyone who is drunk and out will end up in a fight. Its just a fact of life and the only way to get rid of it is to ban alcohol.

I can understand why you might think where there is alcohol violence will follow. That happens now because violence has become a way of life. Not because alcohol always creats it.

Let me explain. I am long in the tooth and when I was a young man doing the late night scene and being with drinkers and people who becam drunk. Violence was the last thing I ever feared.......It was pretty safe to walk past those that were drunk silly. Personally i never came across a violent situation regardless of how drunk someone was.

The sad fact is it's not just being drunk it's the whole social attitude of modern days and generations that yobish violent behavour is ok regardless of being sober or drunk.

Unless the culture can be changed no amount of drink price hike or drink restrictions will make any difference. A yob mentality is a yob mentality sober or otherwise....

Having said that I do think we have gone way to far in allowing the sale of acohol anywhere and everywhere. Time the clock was put back and stop the sale of booze in supermarkets and garages. Only off licences should be allowed to supply booze.

Also if it is illegal to sell booze to an under age person it should also be illegal for an under age person to drink alcohol and such young offenders and parents should be severely punished.....

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Dr43%er
I am not saying we should have to pay more. I chose too. I don't want them to force the cheap pubs to raise their prices. The scum may start coming in to my pubs if there is no price difference. Let the scum drink with the scum and fight with the scum.

I am not saying you are, but this is one of the theories that is bandied about. Supermarkets come increasingly under pressure to raise their prices for instance, as they are criticised for selling alcohol so cheaply.

[Tom]

Originally posted by bananarama

I can understand why you might think where there is alcohol violence will follow. That happens now because violence has become a way of life. Not because alcohol always creats it.

Let me explain. I am long in the tooth and when I was a young man doing the late night scene and being with drinkers and people who becam drunk. Violence was the last thing I ever feared.......It was pretty safe to walk past those that were drunk silly. Personally i never came across a violent situation regardless of how drunk someone was.

The sad fact is it's not just being drunk it's the whole social attitude of modern days and generations that yobish violent behavour is ok regardless of being sober or drunk.

Unless the culture can be changed no amount of drink price hike or drink restrictions will make any difference. A yob mentality is a yob mentality sober or otherwise....

Having said that I do think we have gone way to far in allowing the sale of acohol anywhere and everywhere. Time the clock was put back and stop the sale of booze in supermarkets and garages. Only off licences should be allowed to supply booze.

Also if it is illegal to sell booze to an under age person it should also be illegal for an under age person to drink alcohol and such young offenders and parents should be severely punished.....

I can see what you are getting at and I do agree to some extent, but alcohol makes some people unaware of their actions, and causes some people to be violent without them realising it or without them having no control over it. With certain drinks, I am one of those people and I have no control unless I don't go near particular drinks. Unless you are one of those people it is hard to understand, especially as its not in my upbringing because anyone who is here who knows me will know I am one of the most positive people (even if I do have a sharp tongue when I want one) and I am always extremely happy.