[Swan]

I know we'll never bring it back, but reading about the 2 people who tortured an 18 month year old toddler to death, it got me thinking about how there is absolutely no reason in allowing these two scumbags life (unless it's to suffer).

It's easy to take an academic approach on the death penalty, and say we've evolved since then. But these people will most likely be out in 20 years or so, funded to live, eat, housed, all by the taxpayer (they will never get employment). What possible argument is there for allowing such evil to live?





I would bury them alive personally.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-67512544

[Beso]

You would be more likely to get the death penalty for money orientated crimes than this old nonsense.

[Liam-]

No, killing for revenge is still killing and the government should never sanction murder

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Liam-

No, killing for revenge is still killing and the government should never sanction murder

I wouldn't call it a revenge killing (not in this case anyway), more like a justice killing.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Liam-

No, killing for revenge is still killing and the government should never sanction murder

A straw poll for the public to decide werher they want their tax money to fund these cretins existence or to just be with them should be the only way to decide.

[joeysteele]

I've long laboured over this issue.

However I always come back to the position of a wrongful execution.
Which even if there was only one that would be wrong it's one too many.

So I'd vote against the death penalty .
However for murders, life should be for the rest of their lives as sentencing.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Liam-

No, killing for revenge is still killing and the government should never sanction murder

What about when he we send our forces to war ?


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I've long laboured over this issue.

However I always come back to the position of a wrongful execution.
Which even if there was only one that would be wrong it's one too many.

So I'd vote against the death penalty .
However for murders, life should be for the rest of their lives as sentencing.

The numbers for repeated murders committed by released murderers is frightening

Once they’re dead they can hurt or murder anyone else .. . so you’d be saving hundreds at the risk of one innocent


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[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zizu

The numbers for repeated murders committed by released murderers is frightening

Once they’re dead they can hurt or murder anyone else .. . so you’d be saving hundreds at the risk of one innocent


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I don't think deaths as justice can ever be right if it results in the death of anyone innocent.

[thesheriff443]

We should have a death sentence that means a person will never be free and will die behind bars

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

We should have a death sentence that means a person will never be free and will die behind bars

The flaw with that is all the innocent warders/prison staff will be in constant danger whilst they are on duty

Plus it costs is a small fortune to keep prisoner safe behind bars


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[arista]

I know we'll never bring it back


Why make a thread on it


This is UK NOT USA

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Zizu

The flaw with that is all the innocent warders/prison staff will be in constant danger whilst they are on duty

Plus it costs is a small fortune to keep prisoner safe behind bars


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Don’t you think they are in danger right now?

No solution is ever going to be perfect

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Don’t you think they are in danger right now?

No solution is ever going to be perfect

They are obviously in danger but we add to the risk by having so many murderers in for so long. ..


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[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You would be more likely to get the death penalty for money orientated crimes than this old nonsense.

Sadly true.

[Ammi]

…the death of Alfie Phillips is horrendous and inconceivably sad that it should have and could have ever happened…and I do understand the force of feeling about that…but for me, a death penalty sentence would not be ‘justice’ it would be revenge and adding another layer of wrong, as we know…should never be a reaction to any repulsion we would feel…it’s not about ‘evolving since…’…we were never that in the first place…we were never what they are, we didn’t need to evolve from something that we never were…but causing someone else to suffer/taking their life as revenge would just take us closer to a place of being exactly that, surely….


….there are obviously a lot of legal procedures involved in a death sentence…(…which is why I presume, there are still relatively few in any US states for instance, where it’s legal…)…I always felt that they were really dumb logic in that those who are given that sentence have to be on death row for many, many years/decades even…and then they’re put to death …or they may finally win an appeal and continue a life sentence…but the cost of all of those extra legal procedures involved would be vast…for the time of the courts and putting together those appeals, it must cost the justice system much more to give someone a death sentence and to carry it out…than give them a life sentence…there are also many murderers who would be deemed mentally ill and taking the life of a mentally ill person/a person who has committed a crime that stems from their own vulnerabilities of being ill, would also make the system of ‘justice’ no more different than what it’s punishing….

…we do need to look at our system, though and how sentences are given but not then served…a sentence should mean the time served is exactly what the court has given unless there are very exceptional/specific reasons why it should be looked at to be reduced…

[Garfie]

The death penalty has always been a difficult one for me, and something I feel uncomfortable about. I’ve never been fully able to decide my opinion on it, as I can see both sides of the argument.

Certainly in the UK, I get frustrated that a ‘life sentence’ doesn’t generally mean life in many cases. I feel our justice system is a mess at the moment, as the sentences for violent crimes are far too lenient - therefore there is little deterrent, so violent criminals reoffend. I think police officers must sometimes wonder why they make all the effort to investigate and build a case against perpetrators of crime, for courts to then issue suspended sentences, fines, etc. it must be a thankless task for the police who are on the frontline, and subject to the disrespect such sentencing instigates.

[Oliver_W]

I'll probably always say that child molesters should be put to death, but the difference between a flippant viseral remark and the reality are quite different.

I don't think I agree with giving the state the right to take people's lives away.

Not to go all "slippery slope" but would it really be a big leap to think that once one extreme is validated, jt could lead to smaller things? Once the seal is broken and the state can dish out the ultimate punishment, can they sneak in less extreme but still horrible ones? Could we see hands chopped off for theft?

Of course the real answer is "probably not", as the parts of the USA which still have the death penalty don't do that, and the UK never did. But it's better to ere on the side of caution and not give more power than necessary to governments.

[user104658]

My issue is pretty much always the same: it all hinges on the illusion that we have or can ever have a perfect criminal justice system. We just don't. Innocent people are sometimes convicted, guilty people often walk out of court free.

Until we have an infallible system then the death sentence can't be right. And we never will.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Certainly in the UK, I get frustrated that a ‘life sentence’ doesn’t generally mean life in many cases. I feel our justice system is a mess at the moment, as the sentences for violent crimes are far too lenient - therefore there is little deterrent, so violent criminals reoffend. I think police officers must sometimes wonder why they make all the effort to investigate and build a case against perpetrators of crime, for courts to then issue suspended sentences, fines, etc. it must be a thankless task for the police who are on the frontline, and subject to the disrespect such sentencing instigates.

Exactly !

It’s pure madness that they only serve HALF of their sentence less the time they’ve been
held in custody.


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[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Exactly !

It’s pure madness that they only serve HALF of their sentence less the time they’ve been
held in custody.


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That sort of thing infuriates me. It’s a joke to claim that criminals are sentenced to a certain number of years, when they know right from the start that those years won’t be served. Be upfront from the start!

I truly feel for victims of violent crime, who know in a few year’s time they will have to live with the fear that their attacker is free to roam in their immediate environment. Somehow it seems that victims of violence end up being ‘imprisoned’ by the freedom of their attackers. It’s so wrong.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

My issue is pretty much always the same: it all hinges on the illusion that we have or can ever have a perfect criminal justice system. We just don't. Innocent people are sometimes convicted, guilty people often walk out of court free.

Until we have an infallible system then the death sentence can't be right. And we never will.

You’ve made a very relevant and logical point here, which is very hard to argue against.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

My issue is pretty much always the same: it all hinges on the illusion that we have or can ever have a perfect criminal justice system. We just don't. Innocent people are sometimes convicted, guilty people often walk out of court free.

Until we have an infallible system then the death sentence can't be right. And we never will.

One rule doesn't, and shouldn't fit all with most sentencing in this country. It was proven these 2 scumbags tortured and killed this little boy, hand them death. It's actually quite straight forward really.

Murder for murder, no. But in some cases i feel such a crime, when proven, should lead to evil monsters like the 2 who killed this boy to be sentenced to death.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

My issue is pretty much always the same: it all hinges on the illusion that we have or can ever have a perfect criminal justice system. We just don't. Innocent people are sometimes convicted, guilty people often walk out of court free.

Until we have an infallible system then the death sentence can't be right. And we never will.

I agree with most of what you're saying.

I do wonder why using the UK as an example, why the UK courts will find someone guilty of Paedophilia, just for them to only get a 2 year sentence (I think the case that I'm thinking of was based on good behaviour) but still I see that kind of sentencing as monstrous, or the fact that Katie Piper's attacker was seen walking around in society (tagged admittedly) but again that guy shouldn't be seeing the light of day for a very long time.

Obviously I have sympathy for the justice system though when a bad person walks free or an innocent person gets wrongly convicted, because unfortunately evidence can sometimes lead you down the wrong path.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Swan

One rule doesn't, and shouldn't fit all with most sentencing in this country. It was proven these 2 scumbags tortured and killed this little boy, hand them death. It's actually quite straight forward really.

Murder for murder, no. But in some cases i feel such a crime, when proven, should lead to evil monsters like the 2 who killed this boy to be sentenced to death.

How do you pick and choose which murderers deserve the death penalty though?

Don't get me wrong I more than understand the temptation of having one, but we can't let emotion come into it, otherwise we open our justice system up to even more anarchy than it's already in.