[user104658]

---

[Cherie]

Given his reluctance to blame Putin for anything including invading Ukraine, I think this rumour could have legs

[Crimson Dynamo]

Russia has lost half its army in its disastrous failed invasion of Ukraine

so it ain't working

[Cherie]

For someone who is so vocal about immigrants he doesn't seem to care about an illegal invasion of another country

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

Russia has lost half its army in its disastrous failed invasion of Ukraine

so it ain't working

Yes, during the Biden administration ... .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

For someone who is so vocal about immigrants he doesn't seem to care about an illegal invasion of another country

Reading between the lines, one might argue that he's sympathetic to the commonly-held Mother Russia argument that all ex-Soviet territories are still "rightfully" part of the Russian collective... thus, it's (morally) a reclamation of rightful territory and not an invasion. But that would be an extremely Russia-aligned viewpoint, and has not only never been the POV of the United States, but the United States were a massive and active part of creating the post-Soviet world that had the exact opposite view on this.

It really is all bizarre because - not only this - but Red State Americans (Republican core) would never, ever have taken this stance. A few short years ago Russia / Communism were words that evoked utter horror in the Republican voter base. Now they worship an extremely Mother-Russia-Sympathising leader. If you'd told me this was even possible a couple of years ago I would have laughed.

To be fair it's all (dismal, but) interesting in the social psychology realm. Obviously the "cult of personality" is a known thing but I don't think there's a modern example of one this strong. I'd maybe even go as far as to say, there has never been one with this much influence. Most likely due to he internet/"instant news" being relatively new. Makes me wonder what various historical demagogues would have been able to achieve if they'd had Social Media.

[Beso]

I'm not discussing a random FB post.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Beso

I'm not discussing a random FB post.

Is that what it is?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Reading between the lines, one might argue that he's sympathetic to the commonly-held Mother Russia argument that all ex-Soviet territories are still "rightfully" part of the Russian collective... thus, it's (morally) a reclamation of rightful territory and not an invasion. But that would be an extremely Russia-aligned viewpoint, and has not only never been the POV of the United States, but the United States were a massive and active part of creating the post-Soviet world that had the exact opposite view on this.

It really is all bizarre because - not only this - but Red State Americans (Republican core) would never, ever have taken this stance. A few short years ago Russia / Communism were words that evoked utter horror in the Republican voter base. Now they worship an extremely Mother-Russia-Sympathising leader. If you'd told me this was even possible a couple of years ago I would have laughed.

To be fair it's all (dismal, but) interesting in the social psychology realm. Obviously the "cult of personality" is a known thing but I don't think there's a modern example of one this strong. I'd maybe even go as far as to say, there has never been one with this much influence. Most likely due to he internet/"instant news" being relatively new. Makes me wonder what various historical demagogues would have been able to achieve if they'd had Social Media.

I saw a poll earlier that said 70 per cent of Republican are actually appalled at what went on last Friday...will try to find it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I saw a poll earlier that said 70 per cent of Republican are actually appalled at what went on last Friday...will try to find it

There are a lot who essentially viewed it as a "Man's man" being ganged up on by a room full of soft-bellied nerds... I don't think it hit the right tone at all for a lot of the "Old School" Guns 'n' Jesus Texas Republicans.

[bots]

Trump ordered America to stop targeting or monitoring Russian cyber attacks, so the usa is now completely at the mercy of Russia

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bots

Trump ordered America to stop targeting or monitoring Russian cyber attacks, so the usa is now completely at the mercy of Russia

pausing

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

pausing

WHY would they legitimately "pause" this. Even if the process was being "reviewed" ... why would they "pause" in the meantime. Insane.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Is that what it is?

Yes my darling, that was what it was..made by someone NOT in the KGB at the time.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

WHY would they legitimately "pause" this. Even if the process was being "reviewed" ... why would they "pause" in the meantime. Insane.

That is what has been reported, who knows if its true

May be just part of the mechanics of ending the Ukraine debacle

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Reading between the lines, one might argue that he's sympathetic to the commonly-held Mother Russia argument that all ex-Soviet territories are still "rightfully" part of the Russian collective... thus, it's (morally) a reclamation of rightful territory and not an invasion. But that would be an extremely Russia-aligned viewpoint, and has not only never been the POV of the United States, but the United States were a massive and active part of creating the post-Soviet world that had the exact opposite view on this.

It really is all bizarre because - not only this - but Red State Americans (Republican core) would never, ever have taken this stance. A few short years ago Russia / Communism were words that evoked utter horror in the Republican voter base. Now they worship an extremely Mother-Russia-Sympathising leader. If you'd told me this was even possible a couple of years ago I would have laughed.

To be fair it's all (dismal, but) interesting in the social psychology realm. Obviously the "cult of personality" is a known thing but I don't think there's a modern example of one this strong. I'd maybe even go as far as to say, there has never been one with this much influence. Most likely due to he internet/"instant news" being relatively new. Makes me wonder what various historical demagogues would have been able to achieve if they'd had Social Media.

The right have always been smarter than the left at doing that strategy.

Especially in that last US Election, the Dogs that were being eaten in Springfield had more charisma than Kamala Harris.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The right have always been smarter than the left at doing that strategy.

Especially in that last US Election, the Dogs that were being eaten in Springfield had more charisma than Kamala Harris.

Saying "the left" is such a stretch though, by UK political standards, Harris and the Dems are centre-right. The republicans are just more to the right, and the Trumpettes further right still. There is no political "left" in the US.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Saying "the left" is such a stretch though, by UK political standards, Harris and the Dems are centre-right. The republicans are just more to the right, and the Trumpettes further right still. There is no political "left" in the US.

the traditional lines have all been mixed up. Trump has many voters from what would traditionally be considered working class and the dems are a very broad party that does stretch from the middle right to pretty far left at it's extremes

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bots

the traditional lines have all been mixed up. Trump has many voters from what would traditionally be considered working class and the dems are a very broad party that does stretch from the middle right to pretty far left at it's extremes

The cultural and social left, maybe, there's nothing the dems have ever done economically that could be considered anything more than very slightly left-of-centre. America was built on free range capitalism, it's baked into the bones. They think very basic govt. healthcare assistance is "lefty", and universal healthcare straight up full blood communism.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Saying "the left" is such a stretch though, by UK political standards, Harris and the Dems are centre-right. The republicans are just more to the right, and the Trumpettes further right still. There is no political "left" in the US.

That's a fair point, as the Democrats would be more like the Tories over here.

I do still think that the right does love to play on the "cult of personality" trope more than the left does though.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Discuss if you dare .

Pyotr Krasnov


[Also known as Peter Krasnov,
was a Russian military leader,
writer and later Nazi collaborator.

Krasnov served as a lieutenant general
in the Imperial Russian Army
during World War I and later led
anti-Bolshevik
forces during the Russian Civil War,
where he served as the ataman of the Don Republic.
Approximately 25,000 to 40,000 people
were executed by Krasnov's White Cossacks,
which lasted until the Red Army conquered
the region following their victory at Tsaritsyn.

After the civil war, he lived in exile.
During World War II, Krasnov collaborated
with the Germans who mobilized
Cossack forces to fight against the
Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa.
Following the end of the war, (WW2)
Krasnov was repatriated and executed by
the Soviet authorities. ]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Krasnov