[Ruth]

Originally posted by SparkleBabe
Maxwell and Saskia are pretty much universally hated on DS and the C4 forums. I'm guessing most of the users on here are quite young, judging by the fact that they don't try and defend some of team Saskia's behaviour.

Bit of a patronising thing to say! To be honest, I share your feelings about Maxwell and Saskia, although I didn't personally see or hear Maxwell say anything racist. Whether Saskia's fans are aware of it, or whether or not they like it, Saskia definitely had some decidedly dodgy views about immigrants.

I didn't like them; I thought they were two of the most awful housemates ever to have been in any Big Brother (together with Craig and Makosi), but as I said earlier, it would be a boring show if we all liked everybody in it, or if everybody in it got on really well with each other.

[SparkleBabe]

Originally posted by Ruth
Bit of a patronising thing to say! To be honest, I share your feelings about Maxwell and Saskia, although I didn't personally see or hear Maxwell say anything racist. Whether Saskia's fans are aware of it, or whether or not they like it, Saskia definitely had some decidedly dodgy views about immigrants.

I didn't like them; I thought they were two of the most awful housemates ever to have been in any Big Brother (together with Craig and Makosi), but as I said earlier, it would be a boring show if we all liked everybody in it, or if everybody in it got on really well with each other.

I didn't mean to be patronising. Im just interested to hear why so many people on this board found them "entertaining"? Im glad Im not the only person on here who see's them for what they are. Nasty, evil playground bullies.

To my mind they did absoloutley nothing entertaining whatsoever, unless you count sitting up until the early hours talking about football and shagging which was all team saskia seemed to do. I'd much rather what a Team Makosi bitch fest, at least they know how to bitch properly.

[Fangz]

I don't think they were/are racist, where'd you get that idea from?
I don't like either of 'em, but they weren't the worst ones in there, IMHO.

[makosifan]

Originally posted by Lance

Nope, he wasn't. If he was the star of the show he would have won. I hate to say it but Anthony was the star of the show.

And well if Max and Saskia weren't there we probably would have had two other housemates that would have done just as much and more.

I don't think Ant was "the star",
There is a difference between the star of the show and the actual winner. For example in BB3 Kate won BUT most people think of Jade as the star.
BB1 craig won but nick was the star etc..
Personally i think MAkosi was the star this year but its just down to personal opinion , some people think Maxwell was , others Science, some Derek etc...

[sweet-thang]

makosi and sciemce

[makosifan]

I can understand why sparklebabe thinks SAskia and Max might be racist as they both did come out with certain stuf andshe has given examples.
I dont think they were racist but i do think they were VERY ignorant.
And Maxwell did come across as a bit of a bully ie scab incident, also that time when he looked like he was about to hit Kemal and saskia had to get him to calm down,

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Fangz
I don't think they were/are racist, where'd you get that idea from?
I don't like either of 'em, but they weren't the worst ones in there, IMHO.

Saskia said we shouldn't let any more foreigners into the country, as they all want to bomb us and call us names. I'd have to say she was either racist or ignorant or both.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by SparkleBabe
I didn't mean to be patronising.

No I know, I'm sorry. It didn't come across on the screen as it did in my head!

[SparkleBabe]

Maxwell called Makosi a "boon", which some people could call a racist remark. He also told Kemal that he didn't know whether he was "Arthur or Martha", now excuse me but I thought that sort of remark went out with the arc??

Then there was Maxwell making fun of Roberto for being Italian, you could say though that was xenophobic rather than Racist. Still very ignorant though. Saskia also called Derek a "Malteaser Head" which was later repeated by Anthony.

[cc100]

We all know about Saskia's feelings on non whites.........

[makosifan]

Originally posted by SparkleBabe
Maxwell called Makosi a "boon", which some people could call a racist remark. He also told Kemal that he didn't know whether he was "Arthur or Martha", now excuse me but I thought that sort of remark went out with the arc??

Then there was Maxwell making fun of Roberto for being Italian, you could say though that was xenophobic rather than Racist. Still very ignorant though. Saskia also called Derek a "Malteaser Head" which was later repeated by Anthony.

dont get me wrong i really disliked Maxwell and Saskia too, they were def my least fa vhousemates this year!
i just wouldnt go as far as to say they were racist just very ignorant.BUT i totally understand where your coming from.
There is A LOT of words i could use to describe them both i just dont think racist is one of them...

[CharlotteSometimes]

Originally posted by SparkleBabe

No it isn't ignorance! You think Saskia comments about immigrants on her audition tape were OK do you? She's the ignorant one "All they want to do is kill us and bomb us" ...

I suppose you think its fine to joke about putting scabs in another Housemates food

or mock a person's nationality or racial appearance

to mock a person's sexuality?

To talk about nominations, yet practically lynch other HM's for daring to talk about you behind your back?

I seriousley worry about the mentality of those who liked these two horrible human beings! But of course Max and Saskia and two nice people you'd meet down the pub arn't they ??

Maxwell showed himself to be a total thug by the way he behaved on his eviction night "Open the ****ing doors" .

As for Makosi, yes she was devious and cunning. But never down right nasty. She played the game brilliantly and gave us all wonderful entertainment during those 11 weeks.

It quite clearly is – ignorance of the facts and also of reality. Nobody is saying those comments were "OK". But that isn't racism at all, it's xenophobia. You're playing the race card with no foundation whatsoever. Distasteful as it may be, the vast majority of the population are xenophobic and 'ignorant' as far as immigration is concerned. It's a vast debate that most aren't interested in exploring very deeply at all. That's undoubtedly regrettable, but hardly justification for an individual witch-hunt.

I think it would be legitimate here to ask why you've not cited Derek in your post. There's his infamous "In Science I have found the first black person who makes me want to become a member of the BNP." comment. And the fact that he was the only black member of the Monday Club, which supported repatriation of immigrants and the apartheid regime in South Africa. Then there's his continual refusal to grant an interview with New Nation, or indeed any other 'black media' organisation. Derek's vile objections to gay parenting and adoption, which he spouted several times in the house, are also far more unpalatable and potentially damaging than Saskia's naive comment.

From Science's interview with New Nation: Science says he found the most disappointing housemate to be confused conservative Derek Laud. "Derek is the dark deceiver, full stop, bottom line. He disrespected himself when he said [I made him want to join the BNP]. He has no comprehension of his roots or culture. There was one time when I tried to drop a water [balloon] on his head [playing around], and he was chasing me around saying "come back n****r" – but not in a way that black people say it to each other. I was totally disappointed in him. But at the end of the day, that's him. He chose to leave his roots behind and be the way that he is."

Does a joke warrant such bitterness and hatred? Even Science himself has dismissed that issue.

How does a woman being mocked for wearing a wig equate to 'racism'?

As Derek did to Craig & Anthony? Science to Craig & Kemal? Maxwell to Kemal? Makosi to Kemal? Anthony to Craig? Roberto to Kemal? Kemal to Maxwell? That’s half the housemates at least that you're actually condemning.

Vanessa's discussion of nominations ruined the entire process in week two. Derek, Roberto and Craig were barred from taking part in nominations for a week after discussing them. Makosi, Kemal, Derek (to the point of actually attempting to influence other hm's), Orlaith, Vanessa and most of all Craig all continually discussed nominations with other hm's.

I wouldn't let it worry you. The replies thus far in this thread seem to find the witch-hunt mentality far more disturbing.

That's really quite absurd.

She was "never down right nasty"? Then how would you describe the way she treated Kemal, or her comments about him in the diary room? Or her 'immaculate conception'? Had Makosi "played the game brilliantly", she would've won. The viewers couldn't wait to get her out of the house, evident by the fact that she was their choice for eviction (from a choice of SIX hm's) 2/3 of the way through the series.

[SparkleBabe]

I never knew any of that stuff about Derek, I remember him saying the BNP comment about Science but just took it with a pinch of salt.

Very interesting....

[makosifan]

IMO derek was just as ignorant as saskia and Maxwell. All 3 irritated me with certain coments they came out with.

[lily.]

What are you looking for? Perfect Housemates? With no faults at all? Give it up already. The show is over. Save your angst for next year.

[hass]

never ruined it. wernt racist. best housmates!

[stacey]

i think they made the show and did absoultly nothing wrong and were not bullying, racist or anything else horrid like you say they are. so no they didn't ruin it at all!