[The_Long_Run]

A psychologist previously employed by BB regrets his involvement in the creation of 'a mindless monster'. Has this series moved the goal-posts even further to try to bolster flagging viewer numbers?

Big Brother has faced complaints of exploitation since its launch in 2000. A psychologist, David Wilson, briefly employed by Big Brother, has publicly accused the show of lacking ethics.

“The producers assured me the programme was a genuine psychological study of the human condition, but I soon found it was nothing of the sort," he said.

“The real agenda was to attract viewers by manufacturing controversy and conflict. Talk of ethical standards was a smokescreen.”

A contestant from the Netherlands version, where the show debuted, recently told of how he turned to alcohol and drugs and then suffered five breakdowns after appearing on the first series of the show.

“If it's true that I helped to create that mindless monster, I'm not too proud of it," he said.

Encouraging makers Endemol to "put it in a museum for weird artefacts of television history,” he said that if he had known what the after-effects of the show were, “I would never have signed up”.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6731698.ece

[Niamh.]

I'd believe it 100% but the evil side of me finds it entertaining. I jus cant understand why these people go on it in the first place, most of them end up being hated afterwards

[Shasown]

Yeah sounds like he hasn't got an axe to grind with endemol has he, did they sack him or was he asked politely to leave, any bets he didnt walk.

Bet he thought he was on a nice little earner when he got signed up to work for them, and this is his way to make up all that lost cash.

Incidentally, when he signed up for the job, had he not done a little research about the show? Does he really expect us he said yes to working with the company that make BB working on the program itself and not know anything about it.

[Dr.Gonzo]

They seem to have gone further each series to manufacture what happens - sending in boyfriends and ex's, for instance... or allowing certain rules to be broken, probably with a good idea of what that will help happen. This current series feels very staged. At first it was mice in a trap; now it's mice in a trap with a fat fu**ing cat. I think, ethically, the show has become lapse. If you sent Craig or Helen, or any other old-school housemate, into the house now, they wouldn't recognise the show compared to what it once was. Like everything in this world, it has faded and become a parody of itself, a twisted reflection.

[Shasown]

This would be David Wilson the professor of criminology at Birmingham City University, the man who "gets off" on slating reality TV shows, who isnt happy unless his name in the papers alongside a critical article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...gh-tv-festival
http://www.newstin.co.uk/tag/uk/124274496
http://topics.breitbart.com/David+Wilson/
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...+brother&meta=

[vladicus]

i would say people go on bb to try something money cant buy but that woman from bb7 proved you can buy your way in

[ElProximo]

Wow this is a very big topic with so much to be said,
and,
I can and probably will say a lot more but for now here is easily one of the biggest concerns:

While psychologists/psychiatrists undoubtedly supposed they were there to find and catch out the mentally disturbed, the fragile and the 'at risk' they must have become surprised to find out the Applicants they 'Flagged' were, it turns out, being the very ones chosen!
'Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind for the mental health professionals they employed. I can imagine their unpleasant surprise to see the very people they identified as problematic (and why) end up being chosen and entered!
But,
What I wonder about is the 2nd, 3rd season this goes on?
Is that same psychiatrist now effectively and knowingly recommending the mentally unstable fully aware they will be chosen?
Are they justifying it by identifying the ones who will be pathological problems for the program - yet - are also the type to be no worse (and no better) after it all?
Kenneth would have been quickly identified as a classic Sociopath but then they may well agree there can be no harm done. Kenneth will be 'no more or no less' a sociopath before and after being in Big Brother. So they think?

A really good question when you see people like Marcy this season. Obviously he is in a state of 'arrested development' and he will pretty much explain (unaware its a sad confession) he has developed a teenagers 'unbeatable superman' person which he will NOT have 'repressed'.
This is really sad. It is his psychological 'duvet' and it saw him bully, intimidate physically weaker people than himself (fortunately that was not many),
but,
What I wonder (an optimistic view) but I wonder if a psychiatrist might suppose that the Big Brother house and its exploitation and traumas could HELP someone like that?
We have seen that.
We have seen HM's who, by the distress and trauma of Big Brother's experience, 'break' and then become stronger and more mature people too!
Is that how the psychologists justify helping BB discover the mentally unstable they deliberately seek to enter?

What is the turnover of mental health staff on these?
Dr. Tomas was simply amazing but I wonder if (for all we know) maybe he was hired, saw what was happening here and realizing his diagnosis were being used to ENTER people and not filter them OUT and did he just quit over ethical objections?
A new staff member is hired who does not yet realize he will be used to help put the mentally fragile IN the house?

A lot of questions about this and a topic really worth looking into.

[Tom]

[rquote=2505834&tid=144738&author=vladicus]i would say people go on bb to try something money cant buy but that woman from bb7 proved you can buy your way in [/rquote]

She only bought a ticket and only had a 1 in about 40 chance of going in so I don't think you can buy your way in ...

[The_Long_Run]

[rquote=2505828&tid=144738&author=Shasown]This would be David Wilson the professor of criminology at Birmingham City University, the man who "gets off" on slating reality TV shows, who isnt happy unless his name in the papers alongside a critical article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...gh-tv-festival
http://www.newstin.co.uk/tag/uk/124274496
http://topics.breitbart.com/David+Wilson/[/rquote]
Yes, that would be the one. The one acknowledged by media sources as the leading expert in the field who they choose to cite to give authority to their lay view that boundaries are being stepped over.

[vladicus]

wasnt it her husband ?

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505839&tid=144738&author=ElProximo]
Dr. Tomas was simply amazing but I wonder if (for all we know) maybe he was hired, saw what was happening here and realizing his diagnosis were being used to ENTER people and not filter them OUT and did he just quit over ethical objections?
[/rquote]

Is it because he was Argentinian you liked him?

Or because of the way he used sweat?

[The_Long_Run]

[rquote=2505839&tid=144738&author=ElProximo]Wow this is a very big topic with so much to be said,
and,
I can and probably will say a lot more but for now here is easily one of the biggest concerns:

While psychologists/psychiatrists undoubtedly supposed they were there to find and catch out the mentally disturbed, the fragile and the 'at risk' they must have become surprised to find out the Apeopleicants they 'Flagged' were, it turns out, being the very ones chosen!
'Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind for the mental health professionals they employed. I can imagine their unpleasant surprise to see the very people they identified as problematic (and why) end up being chosen and entered!
But,
What I wonder about is the 2nd, 3rd season this goes on?
Is that same psychiatrist now effectively and knowingly recommending the mentally unstable fully aware they will be chosen?
Are they justifying it by identifying the ones who will be pathological problems for the program - yet - are also the type to be no worse (and no better) after it all?
Kenneth would have been quickly identified as a classic Sociopath but then they may well agree there can be no harm done. Kenneth will be 'no more or no less' a sociopath before and after being in Big Brother. So they think?

A really good question when you see people like Marcy this season. Obviously he is in a state of 'arrested development' and he will pretty much explain (unaware its a sad confession) he has developed a teenagers 'unbeatable superman' person which he will NOT have 'repressed'.
This is really sad. It is his psychological 'duvet' and it saw him bully, intimidate physically weaker people than himself (fortunately that was not many),
but,
What I wonder (an optimistic view) but I wonder if a psychiatrist might suppose that the Big Brother house and its exploitation and traumas could HELP someone like that?
We have seen that.
We have seen HM's who, by the distress and trauma of Big Brother's experience, 'break' and then become stronger and more mature people too!
Is that how the psychologists justify helping BB discover the mentally unstable they deliberately seek to enter?

What is the turnover of mental health staff on these?
Dr. Tomas was simply amazing but I wonder if (for all we know) maybe he was hired, saw what was happening here and realizing his diagnosis were being used to ENTER people and not filter them OUT and did he just quit over ethical objections?
A new staff member is hired who does not yet realize he will be used to help put the mentally fragile IN the house?

A lot of questions about this and a topic really worth looking into.[/rquote]

The time IN the house is one part of it. The aftermath of the time in the house also needs to be considered and I acknowledge that there may be some possibility that presenting weaknesses to an HM might help them to address them. However, if we consider the sycophantic treatment given to Marcus on his eviction that reinforced his self-delusions this defence is lost. One wonders WHY the producers chose to dispense with a professional psychologist on the eviction panel. Perhaps the psychologists insisted that a more balanced judgemet of his actions in the house should be covered?

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505851&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]Yes, that would be the one. The one acknowledged by media sources as the leading expert in the field who they choose to cite to give authority to their lay view that boundaries are being stepped over.[/rquote]

Err no!!!! You aint have talking bollox there matey same David Wilson was for most of his career actually a Prison Governor.

"And the intrigue? Well, at the end of the day I am a criminologist who has spent years working in prisons with repeat violent offenders."

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...ar-732702.html


"David Wilson followed a successful career as a Prison Governor at a variety of prisons including HMPS Wormwood Scrubs and Grendon and HMP Woodhill - where he designed and managed the two units for the 12 most disruptive prisoners in the country"

Source:
http://www.lhds.bcu.ac.uk/criminaljustice/davidwilson

[The_Long_Run]

[rquote=2505881&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505851&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]Yes, that would be the one. The one acknowledged by media sources as the leading expert in the field who they choose to cite to give authority to their lay view that boundaries are being stepped over.[/rquote]

Err no!!!! You aint have talking bollox there matey same David Wilson was for most of his career actually a Prison Governor.

"And the intrigue? Well, at the end of the day I am a criminologist who has spent years working in prisons with repeat violent offenders."

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...ar-732702.html


"David Wilson followed a successful career as a Prison Governor at a variety of prisons including HMPS Wormwood Scrubs and Grendon and HMP Woodhill - where he designed and managed the two units for the 12 most disruptive prisoners in the country"

Source:
http://www.lhds.bcu.ac.uk/criminaljustice/davidwilson[/rquote]

Sorry, do you have a point? David Wilson predicted 'fight night' and advised against developments that BB proposed based upon his expert knowledge.

Professor Wilson said he had warned the show's producers that they were creating a prison-like environment that criminology predicted was likely to result in a violent clash between housemates.

When they went ahead anyway, he resigned.

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505895&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run][rquote=2505881&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505851&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]Yes, that would be the one. The one acknowledged by media sources as the leading expert in the field who they choose to cite to give authority to their lay view that boundaries are being stepped over.[/rquote]

Err no!!!! You aint have talking bollox there matey same David Wilson was for most of his career actually a Prison Governor.

"And the intrigue? Well, at the end of the day I am a criminologist who has spent years working in prisons with repeat violent offenders."

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...ar-732702.html


"David Wilson followed a successful career as a Prison Governor at a variety of prisons including HMPS Wormwood Scrubs and Grendon and HMP Woodhill - where he designed and managed the two units for the 12 most disruptive prisoners in the country"

Source:
http://www.lhds.bcu.ac.uk/criminaljustice/davidwilson[/rquote]

Sorry, do you have a point?[/rquote]

Apology accepted, he isnt the leading expert in the field, he is an ex prison governor who now holds a position as a professor of criminology at the University of Central England.

He is also one of the main critics of just about all "reality" based TV shows including the X-Factor, Britains got Talent and I'me a Celebrity...., so if you are a Journalist who wants to slate any reality TV show he is one of the first names you go to to get a quote.

[The_Long_Run]

[rquote=2505904&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505895&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run][rquote=2505881&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505851&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]Yes, that would be the one. The one acknowledged by media sources as the leading expert in the field who they choose to cite to give authority to their lay view that boundaries are being stepped over.[/rquote]

Err no!!!! You aint have talking bollox there matey same David Wilson was for most of his career actually a Prison Governor.

"And the intrigue? Well, at the end of the day I am a criminologist who has spent years working in prisons with repeat violent offenders."

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...ar-732702.html


"David Wilson followed a successful career as a Prison Governor at a variety of prisons including HMPS Wormwood Scrubs and Grendon and HMP Woodhill - where he designed and managed the two units for the 12 most disruptive prisoners in the country"

Source:
http://www.lhds.bcu.ac.uk/criminaljustice/davidwilson[/rquote]

Sorry, do you have a point?[/rquote]

Apology accepted, he isnt the leading expert in the field, he is an ex prison governor who now holds a position as a professor of criminology at the University of Central England.

He is also one of the main critics of just about all "reality" based TV shows including the X-Factor, Britains got Talent and I'me a Celebrity...., so if you are a Journalist who wants to slate any reality TV show he is one of the first names you go to to get a quote.[/rquote]

I can assure you there was NO apology as you should know. Sorry? with a question mark is not an apology. However, how could I expect you to understand that? Or perhaps it just amuses you to be obtuse.

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505895&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]
Sorry, do you have a point? David Wilson predicted 'fight night' and advised against developments that BB proposed based upon his expert knowledge.


When they went ahead anyway, he resigned.[/rquote]

Yes I recall the interviews he gave after he "resigned" including one where Endemol did in fact reply to his allegations, lets just say that put a different slant on his "side" of the story.

His allegations received wide spread publicity in 2004. Not a lot appears to have be done by Oftel etc, wonder why that is?



But why let the facts stand in the way of a good story eh?

[ElProximo]

[rquote=2505872&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run][rquote=2505839&tid=144738&author=ElProximo]Wow this is a very big topic with so much to be said,
and,
I can and probably will say a lot more but for now here is easily one of the biggest concerns:

While psychologists/psychiatrists undoubtedly supposed they were there to find and catch out the mentally disturbed, the fragile and the 'at risk' they must have become surprised to find out the Apeopleicants they 'Flagged' were, it turns out, being the very ones chosen!
'Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind for the mental health professionals they employed. I can imagine their unpleasant surprise to see the very people they identified as problematic (and why) end up being chosen and entered!
But,
What I wonder about is the 2nd, 3rd season this goes on?
Is that same psychiatrist now effectively and knowingly recommending the mentally unstable fully aware they will be chosen?
Are they justifying it by identifying the ones who will be pathological problems for the program - yet - are also the type to be no worse (and no better) after it all?
Kenneth would have been quickly identified as a classic Sociopath but then they may well agree there can be no harm done. Kenneth will be 'no more or no less' a sociopath before and after being in Big Brother. So they think?

A really good question when you see people like Marcy this season. Obviously he is in a state of 'arrested development' and he will pretty much explain (unaware its a sad confession) he has developed a teenagers 'unbeatable superman' person which he will NOT have 'repressed'.
This is really sad. It is his psychological 'duvet' and it saw him bully, intimidate physically weaker people than himself (fortunately that was not many),
but,
What I wonder (an optimistic view) but I wonder if a psychiatrist might suppose that the Big Brother house and its exploitation and traumas could HELP someone like that?
We have seen that.
We have seen HM's who, by the distress and trauma of Big Brother's experience, 'break' and then become stronger and more mature people too!
Is that how the psychologists justify helping BB discover the mentally unstable they deliberately seek to enter?

What is the turnover of mental health staff on these?
Dr. Tomas was simply amazing but I wonder if (for all we know) maybe he was hired, saw what was happening here and realizing his diagnosis were being used to ENTER people and not filter them OUT and did he just quit over ethical objections?
A new staff member is hired who does not yet realize he will be used to help put the mentally fragile IN the house?

A lot of questions about this and a topic really worth looking into.[/rquote]

The time IN the house is one part of it. The aftermath of the time in the house also needs to be considered and I acknowledge that there may be some possibility that presenting weaknesses to an HM might help them to address them. However, if we consider the sycophantic treatment given to Marcus on his eviction that reinforced his self-delusions this defence is lost. One wonders WHY the producers chose to dispense with a professional psychologist on the eviction panel. Perhaps the psychologists insisted that a more balanced judgemet of his actions in the house should be covered?[/rquote]

Very good point and bang-on about Marcus as the example.
From a BB fan point of view I was first just disappointed at the way they not only let him 'off the hook' but just about gave Marcy one of the most loving post-BB strokings I had ever seen,
but,
It became obvious they were (expression may not translate) but were 'shining him on'.
It was really one of the cruelest thing if one wants to get serious about someones mental health. They knew Marcus wouldn't be able to see them doing it and Lamb especially 'shined him on' for it all.
So,
Yes, here is that very qood question you brought up - IF the justification for entering him was to, hopefully, see him challenged and find a 'break through' then were was any sort of sincere psychological intervention?
Instead just feeding (in a sort of mean trick) feeding his delusion as much as possible for maximum amusement?

Well, maybe as you suggested they decided it was better and hope to have something that serious dealt with later in a more rigourous therapy?

Now what often concerns me is seeing a cast where MOST of the people have some serious and sometimes very aggressive mental problems.
But I actually worrying about the more innocent and inexperienced ones who start with good mental health and get traumatized by the mad ones.
Example:
Someone like BB9 Rachel experiencing someone like BB9 Alex. A few times I saw what (at a glance) appeared to be a few genuinely frightened people who were sincerely traumatized.
It does not bother the others who are already full of their aggressive issues.

I dunno.. I think most seemed to have handled their post-BB lives as good or better than ever,
but,
Yes, you really wonder how many leave and maybe find themselves traumatized and almost experiencing some sort of 'PTSD' after having experienced frightening, dysfunctional people all in one concentrated dose.

[The_Long_Run]

[rquote=2505916&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505895&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]
Sorry, do you have a point? David Wilson predicted 'fight night' and advised against developments that BB proposed based upon his expert knowledge.


When they went ahead anyway, he resigned.[/rquote]

Yes I recall the interviews he gave after he "resigned" including one where Endemol did in fact reply to his allegations, lets just say that put a different slant on his "side" of the story.

but why let the facts stand in the way of a good story eh? [/rquote]

As Nietzsche said, there is no such thing as facts, only perspectives.

The thread was started to invite views on whether the treatment of HMs was ethical, based upon the evidence of what viewers have seen them subjcted to. I will not be surprised to see evidence that people have been damaged by the experience.

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505913&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]

I can assure you there was NO apology as you should know. Sorry? with a question mark is not an apology. However, how could I expect you to understand that? Or perhaps it just amuses you to be obtuse. [/rquote]

Then perhaps there should have been for the attempt to mislead, looks like your arguement ran out of steam matey.

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505922&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]

As Nietzche said, there is no such thing as facts, only perspectives.

[/rquote]

Actually a more correct translation of that postmodern cliche is interpretations, Sorry to be pedantic but I have noticed a somewhat hyper-critical mode to most of your postings.

And as I stated before I believe Big Brother is simply bringing "Bedlam back into the 21st Century".

[GypsyGoth]

I find BB ethically acceptable, so what if slightly bonkers people have more of a chance of being on. They are not being exploited, in fact we learn more about people on the fringes of society because of BB.

[Niamh.]

A lot of questions about this and a topic really worth looking into.[/rquote]

The time IN the house is one part of it. The aftermath of the time in the house also needs to be considered and I acknowledge that there may be some possibility that presenting weaknesses to an HM might help them to address them. However, if we consider the sycophantic treatment given to Marcus on his eviction that reinforced his self-delusions this defence is lost. One wonders WHY the producers chose to dispense with a professional psychologist on the eviction panel. Perhaps the psychologists insisted that a more balanced judgemet of his actions in the house should be covered?[/rquote]

I was wondering why they had no psychologist on for Marcus as well. This was the first eviction that they didn't, wasn't it?? I enjoy listening to their takes on the HMs behaviours!

[The_Long_Run]

[rquote=2505936&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505922&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]

As Nietzche said, there is no such thing as facts, only perspectives.

[/rquote]

Actually a more correct translation of that postmodern cliche is interpretations, Sorry to be pedantic but I have noticed a somewhat hyper-critical mode to most of your postings.

And as I stated before I believe Big Brother is simply bringing "Bedlam back into the 21st Century".[/rquote]

Translation is such an imprecise science. You stick to your translation and I shall live with mine. Pedantry does not advance the discussion and I accept your apology for it.

[Shasown]

[rquote=2505950&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run][rquote=2505936&tid=144738&author=Shasown][rquote=2505922&tid=144738&author=The_Long_Run]

As Nietzche said, there is no such thing as facts, only perspectives.

[/rquote]

Actually a more correct translation of that postmodern cliche is interpretations, Sorry to be pedantic but I have noticed a somewhat hyper-critical mode to most of your postings.

And as I stated before I believe Big Brother is simply bringing "Bedlam back into the 21st Century".[/rquote]

Translation is such an imprecise science. You stick to your translation and I shall live with mine. Pedantry does not advance the discussion and I accept your apology for it. [/rquote]

Not a problem at all matey, i am a big enough person to apologise for something that may offend or misinform, even to apologise to lesser people who may feel defensive at my perfection.