[Jords]

Originally Posted by InOne

It is not in the Quran, it was enforced by the taliban, and then adopted over here as a kind of '**** you' to our culture.

Woah, never knew this stuff, well then I agree that it should not be allowed, if they saw it that Allah or whoever said this is what they should do, you sort of just gotta respect it (I always thought this, not the taliban forcing it), but knowing this

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Jords

Woah, never knew this stuff, well then I agree that it should not be allowed, if they saw it that Allah or whoever said this is what they should do, you sort of just gotta respect it (I always thought this, not the taliban forcing it), but knowing this

Indeed man, and Women over here wearing it is a dishonour to those women who do not have a choice.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by InOne

This is about Burka's, not the whole religion. Idiot.

Nothing wrong with hating something that is controlling....You cannot dictate who has to like what and shut them up because you disagree.....

All religions are a bloody menace to civilisation....

[InOne]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Nothing wrong with hating something that is controlling....You cannot dictate who has to like what and shut them up because you disagree.....

All religions are a bloody menace to civilisation....

And? We are on about the Burka and what it does to Society and how it affects women.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Arneldo

Muslim woman chose to wear the burka. It's their religion.

Muslim women have been brainwashed from birth and as such have been denied a free choice...Robbed of their soul and personal ability to be free thinking....The ultimate evil of mankind.....

[InOne]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Muslim women have been brainwashed from birth and as such have been denied a free choice...Robbed of their soul and personal ability to be free thinking....The ultimate evil of mankind.....

Well that is why they should not wear it over here. Because, mostly, they will have a choice being brought up in our society.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Nothing wrong with hating something that is controlling....You cannot dictate who has to like what and shut them up because you disagree.....

All religions are a bloody menace to civilisation....

Agreed! More people have died in the name of religion than for anything else. A complete contradiction of what religion is SUPPOSED to be about. In my opinion - most people abuse it and use it to control other people!

Originally Posted by bananarama

Muslim women have been brainwashed from birth and as such have been denied a free choice...Robbed of their soul and personal ability to be free thinking....The ultimate evil of mankind.....

LOL. As have you, as far as i can tell your just going with what the stereotype says that they were "brainwashed". Well your trying to strip our religion off us. From burka to hijab then no hijab then no Islam. To bad by doing this your going to have Extremist muslims (which is what britain wants) and very perverted muslims another thing The EU and America want. I honestly could give less of a ****, It's my choice, i control my self no one can be controlled beyond the age of 18. I want my religion, it gives me obedience and respect and yes i have done some bad things but religion always helps me and im sure helps many others and it's up to them that they follow it. If they are not moderate than there only fooling them selves. My dad is Extremely religious, yet knowing we are in a European country like many other muslims we don't force women or even sons we just ask them don't cross boundaries and if they do it is up to them to leave the house and live by themselves if they disagree with the rules (After there 18 afcourse) because the father then tryed as we say in islam and the Family are legally and Islamically not his Priority.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Muslim women have been brainwashed from birth and as such have been denied a free choice...Robbed of their soul and personal ability to be free thinking....The ultimate evil of mankind.....

Repped.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Agreed! More people have died in the name of religion than for anything else. A complete contradiction of what religion is SUPPOSED to be about. In my opinion - most people abuse it and use it to control other people!

more people have died because of man's need for power and approbation.

Religion among many other things has been used to justify acts of aggression through the ages.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

more people have died because of man's need for power and approbation.

Which of course has nothing to do with religion.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by atieah2009

LOL. As have you, as far as i can tell your just going with what the stereotype says that they were "brainwashed". Well your trying to strip our religion off us. From burka to hijab then no hijab then no Islam. To bad by doing this your going to have Extremist muslims (which is what britain wants) and very perverted muslims another thing The EU and America want. I honestly could give less of a ****, It's my choice, i control my self no one can be controlled beyond the age of 18. I want my religion, it gives me obedience and respect and yes i have done some bad things but religion always helps me and im sure helps many others and it's up to them that they follow it. If they are not moderate than there only fooling them selves. My dad is Extremely religious, yet knowing we are in a European country like many other muslims we don't force women or even sons we just ask them don't cross boundaries and if they do it is up to them to leave the house and live by themselves if they disagree with the rules (After there 18 afcourse) because the father then tryed as we say in islam and the Family are legally and Islamically not his Priority.

You should not need your Religion to give you good qualities, it should come from within.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by InOne

You should not need your Religion to give you good qualities, it should come from within.

Exactly. Are these people saying they would be bad people if they did not have the threat of an invisible egotistical bastard in the sky to keep them in check?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Stu

Exactly. Are these people saying they would be bad people if they did not have the threat of an invisible egotistical bastard in the sky to keep them in check?

Seems so, most people who follow the monotheistic Religions say that, it's weird. Like when they help the poor and that, 'Doing it in the name of the lord'

[Stu]

You don't need an excuse to help people.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by atieah2009

LOL. As have you, as far as i can tell your just going with what the stereotype says that they were "brainwashed". Well your trying to strip our religion off us. From burka to hijab then no hijab then no Islam. To bad by doing this your going to have Extremist muslims (which is what britain wants) and very perverted muslims another thing The EU and America want. I honestly could give less of a ****, It's my choice, i control my self no one can be controlled beyond the age of 18. I want my religion, it gives me obedience and respect and yes i have done some bad things but religion always helps me and im sure helps many others and it's up to them that they follow it. If they are not moderate than there only fooling them selves. My dad is Extremely religious, yet knowing we are in a European country like many other muslims we don't force women or even sons we just ask them don't cross boundaries and if they do it is up to them to leave the house and live by themselves if they disagree with the rules (After there 18 afcourse) because the father then tryed as we say in islam and the Family are legally and Islamically not his Priority.

It isn't just the stereotypes - there have been Muslim women who have 'escaped' from oppression - who have 'come out' and explained their experiences - what happened to them. And we know for a fact - that in certain countries women have to wear certain clothing - they have no choice. Even foreign women visiting the country are expected to do so - out of respect. That has nothing to do with stereotypes - that is fact.

[InOne]

It just should not be allowed here. It is bad for the Women, kids and Society. It was a tool of opression in a country ruled by the Taliban. Why bring it over here i'll never know.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by atieah2009

LOL. As have you, as far as i can tell your just going with what the stereotype says that they were "brainwashed". Well your trying to strip our religion off us. From burka to hijab then no hijab then no Islam. To bad by doing this your going to have Extremist muslims (which is what britain wants) and very perverted muslims another thing The EU and America want. I honestly could give less of a ****, It's my choice, i control my self no one can be controlled beyond the age of 18. I want my religion, it gives me obedience and respect and yes i have done some bad things but religion always helps me and im sure helps many others and it's up to them that they follow it. If they are not moderate than there only fooling them selves. My dad is Extremely religious, yet knowing we are in a European country like many other muslims we don't force women or even sons we just ask them don't cross boundaries and if they do it is up to them to leave the house and live by themselves if they disagree with the rules (After there 18 afcourse) because the father then tryed as we say in islam and the Family are legally and Islamically not his Priority.

This is Britain (like it or not) with its own culture and religion. People who come to this country should not have an automatic right to practice their religion here when it flies in the face of the dominant religion/culture of that country ie the wearing of burkas. You choose to live in another country - you abide by their rules and culture. Simple. Not hard to understand.

Britain, and the western world, has been very accepting and tolerant of other cultures and religions - resulting in certain groups/religions taking things for granted and taking advantage. For you to imply that because the British culture has certain issues with the wearing of burkas - that justifies extremists hating and terrorising the country - is completely unreasonable. It is not us in the wrong - it is them.

If the wearing of burkas is so crucial to their views - then why choose to live in Britain. Seems to me that when push comes to shove - the economic advantages and comforts offered by living here outweigh their religious beliefs. In other words - they don't have the courage of their convictions - and simply want everything their way.

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

This is Britain (like it or not) with its own culture and religion. People who come to this country should not have an automatic right to practice their religion here when it flies in the face of the dominant religion/culture of that country ie the wearing of burkas. You choose to live in another country - you abide by their rules and culture. Simple. Not hard to understand.

Britain, and the western world, has been very accepting and tolerant of other cultures and religions - resulting in certain groups/religions taking things for granted and taking advantage. For you to imply that because the British culture has certain issues with the wearing of burkas - that justifies extremists hating and terrorising the country - you are no better than them. It is not us in the wrong - it is them.

If the wearing of burkas is so crucial to their views - then why choose to live in Britain. Seems to me that when push comes to shove - the economic advantages and comforts offered by living here outweigh their religious beliefs. In other words - they don't have the courage of their convictions - and simply want everything their way.

What?

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

It isn't just the stereotypes - there have been Muslim women who have 'escaped' from oppression - who have 'come out' and explained their experiences - what happened to them. And we know for a fact - that in certain countries women have to wear certain clothing - they have no choice. Even foreign women visiting the country are expected to do so - out of respect. That has nothing to do with stereotypes - that is fact.

Yes many have a choice and yes there is oppression in some countries. Good on them if they escape, Have you ot heard that extremist leaders in here give £10,000 to force some one to convert. this is the dirty extremists not muslims in genera.

Originally Posted by InOne

You should not need your Religion to give you good qualities, it should come from within.

They do come within, but my religion also helps me

[Oldmansteptoe!]

Some of my friends have died fighting these terrorists, and I despise the fact that this country allows them the freedom they don't allow us
We have become a soft touch, democracy is something these people know how to exploit
There again at least these 'masks' allow me to know who to despise!!!
I doubt the Russians or Chinese let them take the mickey!!!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Oldmansteptoe!

Some of my friends have died fighting these terrorists, and I despise the fact that this country allows them the freedom they don't allow us
We have become a soft touch, democracy is something these people know how to exploit
There again at least these 'masks' allow me to know who to despise!!!
I doubt the Russians or Chinese let them take the mickey!!!

Your friends, might I remind you, are fighting for this apparent 'freedom'. I don't agree with Burkas. On the whole, like the rest of Islam, I find it to be a fucking joke, but trying to deny people the right to wear them is a bit hypocritical.

I'm also somewhat surprised at the views WOMBAI is expressing. Anybody should be allowed practice a religion of there choice as long as it does not conflict with the interests of others. As much as I despise religion, it's stupid to try and censor there freedom to practice because that's just being hypocritical.

Of course taking WOMBAI's incredible logic, we should also kick out the atheists, because after all, if your talking about numbers and beliefs, atheism seems to directly contradict Britain's, as you put it, 'culture and religion'.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Your friends, might I remind you, are fighting for this apparent 'freedom'. I don't agree with Burkas. On the whole, like the rest of Islam, I find it to be a fucking joke, but trying to deny people the right to wear them is a bit hypocritical.

I'm also somewhat surprised at the views WOMBAI is expressing. Anybody should be allowed practice a religion of there choice as long as it does not conflict with the interests of others. As much as I despise religion, it's stupid to try and censor there freedom to practice because that's just being hypocritical.

Of course taking WOMBAI's incredible logic, we should also kick out the atheists, because after all, if your talking about numbers and beliefs, atheism seems to directly contradict Britain's, as you put it, 'culture and religion'.

I don't object, in theory, to people practicing the religion of their choice in this or any other country - as long as it doesn't conflict with the dominant religion/culture of that country in the way that the wearing of a burka in Britain conflicts with ours. The wearing of a burka does pose potential security issues, and as it is viewed by many (most of the female population for a start) as a symbol of oppression - allowing it would be as good as condoning it.

How does being an atheist compare with that! What special considerations do they require? People can believe or disbelieve all they like - that is not the issue.

I responded to a poster who implied that our objections to Muslim women wearing burkas etc justified Muslim hatred and retaliation. Most reasonable people would not agree with that. Why should we bend the rules or go against our principles of equality to suit their beliefs? They certainly wouldn't do it for us. We are not the bad guys here - as was implied - we are perfectly entitled to be a little less accommodating for other religions that condradict our way of life.

I am sure you will come back at me with your usual tirade of argumentative rhetoric. Be my guest.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I don't object, in theory, to people practicing the religion of their choice in this or any other country - as long as it doesn't conflict with the dominant religion/culture of that country - ie the wearing of a burka in Britain does pose potential security issues, and as it is viewed by many as a symbol of oppression, should not be condoned as a matter of principle.

How does being an atheist compare with that! What special considerations do they require? People can believe or disbelieve all they like - that is not the issue.

I responded to a poster who implied that our objections to Muslim women wearing burkas etc justified Muslim hatred and retaliation. Most reasonable people would not agree with that. Why should we bend the rules or go against our principles of equality to suit their beliefs? They certainly wouldn't do it for us. We are not the bad guys here - as was implied - we are perfectly entitled to be a little less accommodating for other religions that condradict our way of life.

I am sure you will come back at me with your usual tirade of argumentative rhetoric. Be my guest.

Actually no, that's fair enough, it's just the way your worded it. So no. No tired rhetoric. Still, nice to know I can pose questions to you in the serious debates forum free of any tired attempts at character judgment in a vein attempt to prelude and ridicule any argument I may have posted .