[vesavius]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Dave is now saying he cries for hours because he can't handle so much love from God.

Dave says a lot of things.

You know what I say?

Don't tell us, show us.



I don't see any of the person he professes to be in there... the majority of what I see is his obvious chasing after a pay off (to the point he actually said 'if theres anyone who wants to give me £100,000 I wouldnt say no' on camera )

No way BB should be acting as a recruitment/ donation seeking platform for an unproven cult imo.

In a few years when they are all maybe drinking Kool Aid in a South American jungle C4 could have a problem in explaining their participation.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Dave says a lot of things.

You know what I say?

Don't tell us, show us.



I don't see any of the person he professes to be in there... the majority of what I see is his obvious chasing after a pay off (to the point he actually said 'if theres anyone who wants to give me £100,000 I wouldnt say no' on camera )

No way BB should be acting as a recruitment/ donation seeking platform for an unproven cult imo.

In a few years when they are all maybe drinking Kool Aid in a South American jungle C4 could have a problem in explaining their participation.

Exactly, and all his junky followers would blithely troop off to Davestown , build him a temple then drink the Kool Aid he thoughtfully provided.

But none of the teenies on here have any idea what we are saying! lol

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by fingers

Exactly, and all his junky followers would blithely troop off to Davestown , build him a temple then drink the Kool Aid he thoughtfully provided.

But none of the teenies on here have any idea what we are saying! lol

Which is the point I made earlier! If there were any doubts about Dave and his 'sect' - would bb have put him in - too risky I would have thought! They must consider him harmless enough!

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Which is the point I made earlier! If there were any doubts about Dave and his 'sect' - would bb have put him in - too risky I would have thought! They must consider him harmless enough!

They have no idea what he is.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by fingers

Exactly, and all his junky followers would blithely troop off to Davestown , build him a temple then drink the Kool Aid he thoughtfully provided.

But none of the teenies on here have any idea what we are saying! lol

[fingers]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Which is the point I made earlier! If there were any doubts about Dave and his 'sect' - would bb have put him in - too risky I would have thought! They must consider him harmless enough!

What does BB care? It's the last series anyway and so what if he gets his hundred grand for his sloshfests, they can and will say "we had no idea" lol

[crit]

Originally Posted by FireTwilight

My point mostly was that Dave spouts this stuff to people.. but watching their body language they are just being 'polite' and listening.. but it would not surprise me in the slightest if they were wishing they had sat next any other HM apart from him!

True I do not understand his drunk on god ideas.. but surely in the way he thinks 'god will provide all that I need' then wouldnt god let him win the lottery so he could open the orphanage?

I wont be surprised it the orphanage isnt used as a fund raising project after he leaves the house.

What convinced me that dave isnt truly ' in love with everyone' was his conversation with ben on LF yesterday. They were discussing Bens politics and he was saying he was a 'romantic prgmatist' and that he thought everyone should have good quality beautiful social housing, build well and to last and that if you put people in good housing they will respond by behaving well. Ben said he had faith in human nature....dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

I was surprised, 1stly because it showed a huge amount of tolerance and genuine belief in others and equality from ben and showed that Daves love was a limited one...limited to those he deemed worthy.

Im liking ben more and dislike dave more as each day passes.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by crit

dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

Which shows a staggering lack of empathy from an ex junky, at the very least.

[Peter Plunker]

I'm not going to keep on going over the same points. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 points being raised by the same 4 or 5 trolls.

PS, my PM wasn't to convert you, it was to ask you politely to stop being a dick.

[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by crit

I wont be surprised it the orphanage isnt used as a fund raising project after he leaves the house.

What convinced me that dave isnt truly ' in love with everyone' was his conversation with ben on LF yesterday. They were discussing Bens politics and he was saying he was a 'romantic prgmatist' and that he thought everyone should have good quality beautiful social housing, build well and to last and that if you put people in good housing they will respond by behaving well. Ben said he had faith in human nature....dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

I was surprised, 1stly because it showed a huge amount of tolerance and genuine belief in others and equality from ben and showed that Daves love was a limited one...limited to those he deemed worthy.

Im liking ben more and dislike dave more as each day passes.

well said nice post

Only part I can't agree on is liking ben more lol (sorry) but disliking Dave more and more oh yes...

Dave seems to spout the whole 'i love everybody' but soon forgets he has said such things when he singles out people for any number of reasons surely that is not loving everybody..?? agh

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by crit

I wont be surprised it the orphanage isnt used as a fund raising project after he leaves the house.

What convinced me that dave isnt truly ' in love with everyone' was his conversation with ben on LF yesterday. They were discussing Bens politics and he was saying he was a 'romantic prgmatist' and that he thought everyone should have good quality beautiful social housing, build well and to last and that if you put people in good housing they will respond by behaving well. Ben said he had faith in human nature....dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

I was surprised, 1stly because it showed a huge amount of tolerance and genuine belief in others and equality from ben and showed that Daves love was a limited one...limited to those he deemed worthy.

Im liking ben more and dislike dave more as each day passes.

Alternatively - he may well be talking about his own experience. As an ex-junkie who would have known many junkies - he may well know how such provision would be wasted on them whilst still taking drugs. I'm sure he would not apply the comments to recovered ex-junkies. Junkies don't just start to 'behave' if they are given nice surroundings - addiction goes far deeper than that - that is what he no doubt meant!

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

I'm not going to keep on going over the same points. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 points being raised by the same 4 or 5 trolls.

PS, my PM wasn't to convert you, it was to ask you politely to stop being a dick.

Maybe we trolls should politely ask you to piss off and stop trying to apologise for your master?

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

I'm not going to keep on going over the same points. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 points being raised by the same 4 or 5 trolls.

PS, my PM wasn't to convert you, it was to ask you politely to stop being a dick.

Asking you for clear answers isnt trolling you Peter...

Nor is questioning a man on his faith and cult who is in the house solely on the basis of his faith and cult.

Please, theres no need to hide behind name calling just because the conversation isnt one you feel comfortable in.

[crit]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Alternatively - he may well be talking about his own experience. As an ex-junkie who would have known many junkies - he may well know how such provision would be wasted on them whilst still taking drugs. I'm sure he would not apply the comments to recovered ex-junkies. Junkies don't just start to 'behave' if they are given nice surroundings - addiction goes far deeper than that - that is what he no doubt meant!

Im not convinced all junkies live in squalor or that they dont deserve to have good treatment and services just because theyre junkies, but hey we all have different opinionsl . Maybe daves speaking for himself there heh.

During bens explanation of his political thinking dave was shaking his head in disagreement while ben was coming out with some surprisingly unexpected egalitarian statements that really showed a difference between himself and dave. ie ben came out of the conversation looking like the caring compassionate loving person and dave came off looking like a narrow minded git. Thats the point i was trying to make...dave is not very convincing as an altruistic god gobbler.

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

Originally Posted by fingers

Most cult leaders are liars and they are ALL obsessed with money!

Most religious leaders are liars and they are all obsessed with power, control and money

cult = a religion before people are forced to respect it

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by crit

Im not convinced all junkies live in squalor or that they dont deserve to have good treatment and services just because theyre junkies, but hey we all have different opinionsl . Maybe daves speaking for himself there heh.

During bens explanation of his political thinking dave was shaking his head in disagreement while ben was coming out with some surprisingly unexpected egalitarian statements that really showed a difference between himself and dave. ie ben came out of the conversation looking like the caring compassionate loving person and dave came off looking like a narrow minded git. Thats the point i was trying to make...dave is not very convincing as an altruistic god gobbler.

But for those junkies that do live in squalor and don't have decent housing - would the provision of such housing be appreciated - probably not! It could well end up getting wrecked and would, therefore, be wasted, when others would have appreciated it more! Dave has been there, done that, got the tee-shirt - I'm sure he knows what he is talking about! Junkies probably need help in other ways first.

And if Dave was the 'conman' people say he is - would he have made such comments and meant them in the way people imply - that would have been pretty stupid, wouldn't it!

[crit]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

But for those junkies that do live in squalor and don't have decent housing - would the provision of such housing be appreciated - probably not! It could well end up getting wrecked and would, therefore, be wasted, when others would have appreciated it more! Dave has been there, done that, got the tee-shirt - I'm sure he knows what he is talking about! Junkies probably need help in other ways first.

And if Dave was the 'conman' people say he is - would he have made such comments and meant them in the way people imply - that would have been pretty stupid, wouldn't it!

I dont think hes that bright either.

[Peter Plunker]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Asking you for clear answers isnt trolling you Peter...

Nor is questioning a man on his faith and cult who is in the house solely on the basis of his faith and cult.

Please, theres no need to hide behind name calling just because the conversation isnt one you feel comfortable in.

I've answered you time and time again.
Dave does not lead a cult.
If someone is being a dick I will tell them they are being a dick, that's not name calling.
I've had this conversation far more intelligent people than you, please don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm on the back foot.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

I've answered you time and time again.
Dave does not lead a cult.
If someone is being a dick I will tell them they are being a dick, that's not name calling.
I've had this conversation far more intelligent people than you, please don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm on the back foot.

But the point is that you don't have the conversation at all.

you just call them a dick or attack their intelligence.

"The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are reasonably considered strange. The word implies a group which is a minority in society..."

So, please explain to me, maybe without the insults or personal attacks, why The New Ecstatics are not a cult?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by crit

I dont think hes that bright either.

Sounds bright enough to me!

[SoFarSoGood282]

I have been looking on his website and have found nothing on their beliefs.
http://www.thenewecstatics.co.uk/The...s/Welcome.html
As some one else on here said the just like to throw words around like ecstasy, drunk and high around to entice new young members to join..
Even on his videos he rambles on and on and most of it doesn't make sense!
The only thing on the website that is clear is the hyperlink to the donations page!

[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

I've answered you time and time again.
Dave does not lead a cult.
If someone is being a dick I will tell them they are being a dick, that's not name calling.
I've had this conversation far more intelligent people than you, please don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm on the back foot.

wow you came in steaming like ivor the engine then didn't you

[Peter Plunker]

Originally Posted by vesavius

But the point is that you don't have the conversation at all.

you just call them a dick or attack their intelligence.

"The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are reasonably considered strange. The word implies a group which is a minority in society..."

So, please explain to me, maybe without the insults or personal attacks, why The New Ecstatics are not a cult?

Now who's cherry picking? If you must quote wikipedia pages, at least quote them in context an in their entirety.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

Now who's cherry picking? If you must quote wikipedia pages, at least quote them in context an in their entirety.

Feel free to post the whole wiki page, I'm cool with that.

I merely edited for emphasis.


Once again though, you prefer to evasive deflection over the honest conversation.

Again.. how are The New Ecstatics not a cult?

[fingers]

Jim Jones also brainwashed his followers to such an extent that they revered him and drank his poisoned Kool Aid killing 900 of them and making "the Reverend" one of the biggest mass murderers in peacetime.