[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

but I mean drugs taken for medical reasons that have then become addictive. That is not recreational use.

My point is that medicinal drugs are not exclusive on the 'for medical reasons only' stance. They need to be considered in the debate as well. I understand what you are saying, I do, but I also understand what the other poster was saying too.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Snowball

My point is that medicinal drugs are not exclusive on the 'for medical reasons only' stance. They need to be considered in the debate as well. I understand what you are saying, I do, but I also understand what the other poster was saying too.

But Im not referring to any specific drugs. I thought Id made it clear that Im referring to adults who take drugs for recreational use? If you're taking prescribed drugs for anything other than medical conditions then that counts as recreational use.

It's about the intent rather than the actual labels on the drugs.

[AlexBigBrother]

Originally Posted by Jamietwo

I've tried all drugs to the point of over indulgence over many years , but don't touch them at all now....i think cannabis should be legalized and licensed and the tax should go into rehabs for people with other drug problems. In fact if you legalized all drugs it would massively undermine the criminals power. I like that idea

hi pete doherty

[Jamietwo]

Originally Posted by Zippy

er, I was the one who said it so obviously I accept it.

and Im not interested in having credibility. Im not an expert on drugs...neither are you. I came into this thread stating that I generally see drug users as weak minded. I stand by that but understand there are exceptional cases.

Beyond thinking theyre weak minded I cast no great judgement on them. Everybody knows recreational drugs can lead you to a bad place. If you choose to take that route then you have made your bed.

Again, Im not referring to medication drugs.

I wouldn't describe myself as an expert either , but i do work in a drug and alcohol rehab and from experience i don't see addicts as weak minded, pathetic or useless in fact many of our clients are highly intelligent, creative and successful people and of those who are not when recovered go on to do amazing things. I believe the bottom line with drug use is that people want or need to change the way they feel, that is the common denominator that is combined with the physical addiction. medicinal drugs taken as prescribed are not considered a problem, but many addicts do abuse them for for the same reasons they would abuse any other drug. It is an interesting job and a real privilege to work with such an interesting an diverse set of clients. there are lots of theories about why addiction takes hold of a person, it's not just peer pressure but that obviously plays a part for many. Out of any group of teenage friends who smoke puff and use party drugs it's normal for one or two to go on to become addicts and it is often the more sensitive ones who for the first time feel more able to socialise or find a relief escape difficult feelings. unconscious self medication for various mental ailments and conditions , from depression, reactive stress (after a bereavement for eg) to mild autistic conditions. To say these people are somehow inherently weak (implying lack of moral fiber) is a common misunderstanding which fuels the stigma about addiction and addicts. I don't mean to sound like a complete soft touch, addicts through their addiction can often be a total pain in the arse and cause untold misery to their families and communities and have to face the consequences for this like anyone else. I'm just challenging the notion of them being completely weak, pathetic and useless. thanks x

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Jamietwo

well if an adult chooses to take drugs they are not an addict...many people choose to take drugs , once you are addicted you lose choice. Have you ever been addicted to anything?

well quite. So choice comes before addiction.

which means you have time to back away.

And no, because I approach addictive things with great caution...especially if I know theyre bad for my health. Funnily enough, I don't find that very hard to do. It's called being sensible and actually giving a fck about myself and my body.

Some people just don't care enough about themselves. Weak minded people.

[GypsyGoth]

I don't bother with drugs apart from caffeine.

And I think junkies are selfish. I don't understand why someone would want to live like that.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

My attitude towards drugs is that they should remain banned. They degrade people's mental and physical health. I understand that one reason for drugs to be legalised is because they are under the control of criminal gangs but I don't think that mind altering substances should be distributed freely by the government.

However I do kinda think that less dangerous drugs such as weed should be legalised as I saw on TV in Holland how everybody there just treats weed as they would in countries where it is illegal. But drugs like ecstasy, meth and heroin should remain strictly banned.

I think the government should help those taking drugs more so they can ween themselves away from them. I've seen the effects of drugs first hand on my brother and I think its awful.

But there is no evidence that ecstacy is more harmful than legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco. It's ludicrous how much the dangers of this drug are blown out of proportion, just because it's not a multi billion pound corporate industry like those said drugs are.

[Jamietwo]

Originally Posted by AlexBigBrother

hi pete doherty

oh hi does my bum look big in this hat?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

Its not the deaths that ecstasy causes, its the mental illnesses that it causes in people which scares me a lot more.

I dunno, if a government took charge of drugs and made them safe then I'd support it but I can't see that happening.

The jury is still out on long term mental effects taking MDMA can have. Serotogenic changes have been observed in rats who have been blitzed in laboratory experiments with Happy Monday's style doses of the drug. Taking Ecstacy every day for a few years as many people did back in the rave heyday can exhibit serotonin imbalances or psychological changes in the human brain but then again these people were always idiots for taking it everyday. That would fall under gross abuse. Dropping pills soley on the weekend every now and then is not going to impair much on your mental health, I would imagine.

And yes, the government could very, very easily make all drugs safer. Dosage is the main problem with illegal drugs. Simply put you go from A to B straight away. The manner in which MDMA or something similar is taken would be akin to necking back a bottle of high proof vodka straight to get absoloutely rat arsed within minutes. If the chemical were legal could you not very easily lagerize it into a liquid, drinkable solution that has a very pleasant, slow release effect? Obviously some people would still abuse it but the vast majority of happy, open minded people should not be punished severely for the folly of the few as some slightly more sheltered people in this thread seem to think.

What about Cannabis? Most uneducated people seem to forget when discussing the mental health implications of smoking high grade skunk that this is yet another problem of prohibition, not the substance itself. Cannabis is being grown improper for fast and cheap by greedy blitzkrieg style growers who are simply trying to selectively breed the stuff to death so it has super high levels of the mindracing, psychoactive chemical THC but very, very low levels of CBD - Cannabidiol. The other Cannabinoid in the Cannabis plant that people seem to forget about.

It's an antipsychotic chemical that doesn't destroy the high but merely calms and mellows out the more mind bending effects of the THC. It also reduces growth of aggressive human breast cancer cells in vitro and reduces their invasiveness. It has also been shown to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea amongst other things.

Of course all of this is heavy reading for people who would much rather sit on their hands and denounce anyone who dares to light one up as someone leading an unfulfilled, dismal life of servitude to chemicals. If they don't like something, others who do should have the book thrown at them. A pattern of thought as dangerous as any bag of Crystal Meth.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Mr. Tinsels

The jury is still out on long term mental effects taking MDMA can have. Serotogenic changes have been observed in rats who have been blitzed in laboratory experiments with Happy Monday's style doses of the drug. Taking Ecstacy every day for a few years as many people did back in the rave heyday can exhibit serotonin imbalances or psychological changes in the human brain but then again these people were always idiots for taking it everyday. That would fall under gross abuse. Dropping pills soley on the weekend every now and then is not going to impair much on your mental health, I would imagine.

And yes, the government could very, very easily make all drugs safer. Dosage is the main problem with illegal drugs. Simply put you go from A to B straight away. The manner in which MDMA or something similar is taken would be akin to necking back a bottle of high proof vodka straight to get absoloutely rat arsed within minutes. If the chemical were legal could you not very easily lagerize it into a liquid, drinkable solution that has a very pleasant, slow release effect? Obviously some people would still abuse it but the vast majority of happy, open minded people should not be punished severely for the folly of the few as some slightly more sheltered people in this thread seem to think.

What about Cannabis? Most uneducated people seem to forget when discussing the mental health implications of smoking high grade skunk that this is yet another problem of prohibition, not the substance itself. Cannabis is being grown improper for fast and cheap by greedy blitzkrieg style growers who are simply trying to selectively breed the stuff to death so it has super high levels of the mindracing, psychoactive chemical THC but very, very low levels of CBD - Cannabidiol. The other Cannabinoid in the Cannabis plant that people seem to forget about.

It's an antipsychotic chemical that doesn't destroy the high but merely calms and mellows out the more mind bending effects of the THC. It also reduces growth of aggressive human breast cancer cells in vitro and reduces their invasiveness. It has also been shown to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea amongst other things.

Of course all of this is heavy reading for people who would much rather sit on their hands and denounce anyone who dares to light one up as someone leading an unfulfilled, dismal life of servitude to chemicals. If they don't like something, others who do should have the book thrown at them. A pattern of thought as dangerous as any bag of Crystal Meth.

Do you know what Stu? I've always been undecided on whether drugs should be legalised or not and I have to say your post has converted me. I've always thought that legalising cannabis would be a good idea it was just all the other drugs I was confused about. But you've cleared that up for me now.

I never actually knew ecstasy could be manufactured into a drink. That sounds like a brilliant idea if it makes the drug less intensive.

[Stu]

Well don't just take it from me. There is a wealth of information out there. As for MDMA's beverage potential virtually anything can be consumed in a drink. Even Cannabis's [fat soluble] chemicals can be extracted and used in a drink.

[Niall]

Tbh I have been thinking about it for a while and its what you said up there that convinced me. And cool.