[bonnie43uk]

Whats everyones views on God? .. does he/she/it exist?

I was spoonfed religion from birth, and its only now, nearly half a century later, i've come to the conclusion God does'nt exist.
I read some chapters from the bible before christmas ( mainly the Old Testament) .. and its absolute garbage.. God is a vengeful nasty vindictive piece of work.. read it and tell me different. God did'nt create the world, thats scientific fact, its billions of years old. If an outstretched arm is representative of the age of the planet, man has been here for the tiniest slice of a finger nail. We evolved, very very slowly. Our brains cannot even envisage the sheer age of this planet and the enormity of the universe.
If God gives you comfort I'm happy for you, but i for one, dont believe in him.

Thankyou Prof Richard Dawkins .. you've opened my eyes!

[Sunny_01]

Hmm not sure that he exists in the way we have been brought up to think, but I think that there is something out there, some higher power! Of course I think it is a female higher power as no man can multi task as well as it would have taken to create the earth and all us wonderful beings!

[Lauren]

I don't think he does, there's so many things that go against the existence of God so it can't possibly be true. I believe in some sort of spiritual side to our world, however - but I don't think there's a "higher" power that is watching us and making decisions on the world.

[Slartibartfast]

The statement "God didn't create the world, thats scientific fact" is just wrong. It's not scientific fact that God didn't create the world, there is absolutely no way of proving that either way.

I really could go on for hours about this. My brother is doing a PHD part of which is about the origins of life. He is very much a confirmed atheist and is also quite a fan of Dawkins. I am the opposite so we do have a habit of wasting hours debating this kind of stuff. But even he will accept that one cannot prove how the world was created. Both sides have their beliefs and theories, but there is no actual proof.

And don't get me started on evolution. Some of the leaps of reasoning one has to make in order to accept evolution are just as great as the leaps of faith one has to make in order to believe in God.

You are all of course entitled to your opinions about whether God exists or not, and I hope that all you non-believers have a lovely time discussing this with Richard Dawkins and his mates when you are all burning in Hell.

[Dan_]

I spent two years doing philosophy of religion discussing a whole load of arguments for and against the existence of God and I still take the stance until it can be fully proven I don't believe in the existence of God.

[Arneldo]

We will never ever ever know the answer so dont waste time trying to figue out. Just enjoy and get on with your life.

[Sticks]

I would refer you to the Anthropic Cosmological Principal, which even the atheists who came up with it, says the universe is uniquely designed for mankind.

The atheists require something from nothing, living from non-living, conscious from unconscious, and progression to humanity with large gaps in the fossil record and the violation of the laws of genetics.

Re the OT the problem is that we are looking at it with 21st century eyes, unfortunately I do not have time to illucidate any more on that topic.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Sticks
I would refer you to the Anthropic Cosmological Principal, which even the atheists who came up with it, says the universe is uniquely designed for mankind.

Many people who do not believe in God, also do not believe in Religion, and therefore do not count themselves as "atheist".

[Emilee]

Well, I beleive in God, I am a Catholic.
I do beleive God created the world, and created the Human lifeform. Although it will never be proven, i still beleive God is real.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Emilee
Well, I beleive in God, I am a Catholic.
I do beleive God created the world, and created the Human lifeform. Although it will never be proven, i still beleive God is real.

A question I've always wanted to ask a believer: Who created God?

[Lauren]

The majority of people voted yes, yet won't post their reasons in this thread.

Interesting to see that most people do.

[Emilee]

Originally posted by Lauren

A question I've always wanted to ask a believer: Who created God?

Well...........
I cannot answer that question, I beleive God wasn;t created by reproduction, be somehow created himself.... I knowthat sounds stupid to most of you, but that is what i think.

God was not created by anyone, he created himself.

[Lauren]

Nah it doesn't sound stupid - if thats what you believe then thats what you believe.

I was just interested in hearing believers views on that point.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Lauren
Many people who do not believe in God, also do not believe in Religion, and therefore do not count themselves as "atheist".

But by definition, anyone who believes that there is no God, is an atheist.

Someone who is not sure is an agnostic, a term coined by Thomas Henry Huxley, (Charles Darwin's bulldog)

Originally posted by Bonnie43UK
God is a vengeful nasty vindictive piece of work.

I am assuming you were referring to the instructions to wipe people out when the Children of Israel entered the promised land? If that is the case there is a reason why such an instruction was given. You have to look at those people. They had spurned God's law and had gone into detestable practices like sacrificing babies in fire to Molech. If these people had their way they would corrupt the Children of Israel from which the Messianic line was to come from. So a lot of the instructions was to protect this messianic line.

Once we hit the NT, the way God deals with us changes.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Sticks

But by definition, anyone who believes that there is no God, is an atheist.

Someone who is not sure is an agnostic, a term coined by Thomas Henry Huxley, (Charles Darwin's bulldog)

By my definition I am neither of those things. In my mind I don't NOT believe in God because that is assuming that there is something out there that has substance to believe in - which IMO there is not.
That definition is assuming everything is black and white, either - there is a God or there is not, and by that meaning Atheism is it's own religion - which I do not agree with.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by Lauren

By my definition I am neither of those things. In my mind I don't NOT believe in God because that is assuming that there is something out there that has substance to believe in - which IMO there is not.
That definition is assuming everything is black and white, either - there is a God or there is not, and by that meaning Atheism is it's own religion - which I do not agree with.

I'm quite interested in your view, if a little baffled!

Generally when it comes to the existence of God, there are 4 main conclusions that people come to:

1. God exists and his existence can be proven. (theism)

2. God exists but his existence can't be proved. (also theism)

3. God doesn't exist (atheism)

4. No on can prove the existence of God so I can't be sure(Agnosticism)

Which, if any, of those groups do you feel you would fall into?

[Lauren]

Neither of them.

For me there is no concept of whether he exists or not, and therefore atheism is acknowledging a concept of God, right - because thats what it is.
And so Atheism in itself is a religion.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by Lauren
...therefore atheism is acknowledging a concept of God

But thats just wrong. Atheism is acknowledging that there is no God, thats what atheism is.

You could say that an atheist still has a belief system which is not unlike religion, in that an atheist having found that there is no God, needs to believe in something else to explain the world around them.

But if you don't believe that there is a God, then you are by definition, an atheist.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Lauren
Neither of them.

For me there is no concept of whether he exists or not, and therefore atheism is acknowledging a concept of God, right - because thats what it is.
And so Atheism in itself is a religion.

That depends on what you define a religion to be,if it's that there is a belief system that there is a higher power/supernatural force then whilst Atheists acknowledge the concept of a God they don't actually believe there is one so where is the belief system in a higher power/supernatural to make it a religion?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast

But thats just wrong. Atheism is acknowledging that there is no God, thats what atheism is.

My argument is: Why do they need to argue against God?
They have a doctrine of beliefs and a belief system of morals and values, that to me means they are a religion in their own right.
For me, there is no need to argue against something so conceptual and ambiguous.

EDIT: In response to Dan - I define religion as something which follows a doctrine of belief (Whether it be in the supernatural or not). And so Atheists follow this particular doctrine of not believing God - so I'd say thats a religion.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by Lauren

My argument is: Why do they need to argue against God?
They have a doctrine of beliefs and a belief system of morals and values, that to me means they are a religion in their own right.
For me, there is no need to argue against something so conceptual and ambiguous.

EDIT: In response to Dan - I define religion as something which follows a doctrine of belief (Whether it be in the supernatural or not). And so Atheists follow this particular doctrine of not believing God - so I'd say thats a religion.

That really doesn't make any sense!

Atheists argue against the existence of God because they don't believe there is a God. They simply don't accept that any God exists, thats atheism. You can't say that by arguing a God doesn't exist, they are therefore acknowledging that a God exists. It's nonsensical!

As for whether atheism is a religion, thats a completely different question and has nothing to do with the issue of whether God exists. I'm guessing you're getting this "atheism is a religion" stuff from the program on Channel 4 late last year.

It seems to me that you are an atheist. Like I said above, someone who is an atheist still needs something to explain to themselves stuff like where did we come from, the nature of life etc, etc, you know the really big questions. And yes, you could say that the beliefs that an atheism has in explaining the world are similar to the beliefs that a religion would hold. But that is a completely different issue as to whether or not God exists.

[Tanser_Man]

God's ther biggest myth to be told to man, it's a load of codswallop.

Firstly, god isn't the creater.. who do you think invented everything, including god i don't think this 'thing' could create itself. This leads to another debate, how is anything created, likethe human body being so amazing, trees, gas, sperm.. etc.

Secondly, there have been more deaths caused by religion then anything that has ever happened. If god is so great and god is the creater, then why is he letting people fight over this and that concerning him/her/it. Why don't he suddenly appear and stop all bad in the world happening.... because he is ficticious!

Thirdly, whats the point in worrying and devoting yourself to a religion that you don't know is true?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
That really doesn't make any sense!

Atheists argue against the existence of God because they don't believe there is a God. They simply don't accept that any God exists, thats atheism. You can't say that by arguing a God doesn't exist, they are therefore acknowledging that a God exists. It's nonsensical!

As for whether atheism is a religion, thats a completely different question and has nothing to do with the issue of whether God exists. I'm guessing you're getting this "atheism is a religion" stuff from the program on Channel 4 late last year.

It seems to me that you are an atheist. Like I said above, someone who is an atheist still needs something to explain to themselves stuff like where did we come from, the nature of life etc, etc, you know the really big questions. And yes, you could say that the beliefs that an atheism has in explaining the world are similar to the beliefs that a religion would hold. But that is a completely different issue as to whether or not God exists.

In brief:
1) No I didn't watch that programme on C4, and didn't get any idea's from it.
2) I didn't say atheists believe in God and don't at the same time. I'm saying they accept the concept of God, which they do to argue against the concept of God.
3) We aren't going to agree. My opinion makes sense to me and thats all that really matters.

[Slartibartfast]

Again your second point makes no sense to me, but as you say, as long as you're happy with your belief system that's really all that matters.

And if you get a chance to watch that Channel 4 show you should, i think it would be right up your street! Called The Trouble with Atheism. This is a blurb about it:

Far from being an antidote to religious fundamentalism, Rod Liddle sees 21st century atheism as sharing many characteristics with the very belief systems it opposes. As he argues in this authored film, those that turn to atheism for a rational, logical and moderate approach to modern problems are in for a shock; atheism too has its high priests, dogmas and beliefs as much as any fundamentalist religion.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by SiMoN!
he not someone that exist - he someone that you belive in

like santa lol

Except Santa does exist.