[the truth]

down to 7% the lowest for 5 years just when Obama came to power.It was 10.5% just when warmonger bush gave up power

the stock market is the highest of all time at over 16,000 points also GDP , gold prices are strong, housing market is strong, gdp growth is up to a record 3.6% for the past quarter

so much for Obama being a weak socialist president who couldn't handle the economy

The only doubt Id have is how many people aren't included who left the workplace with no benefits and how many of these are decent well paying jobs

oil prices are strong , spending is steady, inflation is steady and the quantitative easing is ceasing

as the wars end and military is cutback , the investments in infrastructure during the recession are paying off too, als some state jobs have been shaved back... the debt will also fall too during the next few years.

his main concern now will be obamacare...

[Roy Mars III]

Has nothing to with that joke of a president, anyway the failure that is Obamacare will shred any resemblance of a legacy he could leave

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

Has nothing to with that joke of a president, anyway the failure that is Obamacare will shred any resemblance of a legacy he could leave

that's right give him no credit for all that's improved and only give him credit for all that's gone wrong, how totally disingenuous of you

[BBfanUSA]

Yeah but that means nothing if the minimum wage hasn't been raised at all. You can barely survive on 7.25 an hour.

Nothing has really improved under Obama mainly because of congress not cooperating with each other,

All Obamacare is doing is making people buy healthcare, which violates free will.

This thread is kinda pointless tbh, because everyone's going to be biased.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by BBfanUSA

Yeah but that means nothing if the minimum wage hasn't been raised at all. You can barely survive on 7.25 an hour.

Nothing has really improved under Obama mainly because of congress not cooperating with each other,

All Obamacare is doing is making people buy healthcare, which violates free will.

This thread is kinda pointless tbh, because everyone's going to be biased.

with that attitude everything is pointless?

it doesn't violate free will....You don't HAVE to buy healthcare, but if you don't youre buggered just as before....obamacare makes it affordable for the poorest 50 mlllion who never had healthcare before

the first rung is bound to be more expensive but it should fall in price over time as the enrolment numbers grow and competition keeps down prices to competitive levels...everyone could end up with the same insurers as before...the price for the rich is tiny, the cost for the working classes and small businesses is what he needs to keep an eye on, they may struggle for a few years

that being said the enormity of this challenge is mind boggling, its the biggest government project in US history....the goal though is noble and the ideal is superb. lets just hope it doesn't end up like the nhs these days with cover ups, death panels, unaccountable nurses and phenomenal middle management waste

as for mimimum wages....yes Id support it....though it needs to have some get out clauses because some jobs are not wage based theyre commission based....i.e. sales people.....if they sell 5 Ferraris they go home rich...if they sell none that how have they earned their money?

as for your rather glib line about nothing has improved under Obama? what utter nonsense

house prices are up 13.3% in a year
stock market more than doubled in value in 5 years
unemployment down from 10.5 to 7%
trillion dollar infrastructure improvements on roads, railways, transport system
the us car manufacturers back to world number 1
got Bin Laden, got ghadaffi, got 100s of other terrorist leaders
fined corrupt banks like JP morgan record $19 billion
re-structured re-regulated the banks, housing and financial markets
introduced obamacare to try insure the poorest 50 million
increased exports
tightened tariffs on chinsese imports
expanded stem cell research
allowed gay marriage
withdrew from Iraq and afghan soon
agreed to disarm Russian nuclear missiles by 40%
reduced military budget by a trillion
huge expansion in small business growth
raised taxes on rich
greater disposable income for middle americans
inspected 22 of 23 Syrian weapons sites...got Iranian nuclear deal
reduced guantamo bay by over a third
etc

that's taken me about 2 minutes to think of.....
massive achievements some, others are monumental works in progress
Im a right winger , but Obama is no socialist , hes pretty middle of the road overall... I think hes done what he said hed do...he hasn't thrown everything out, but hes gone through it with a scalpel....this is just the beginning

[Nedusa]

What constitutes a successful US President ? That depends on where you sit on the American political divide. Most left leaning people would look to Obamacare and the investment in new jobs and the lowering of inflation , they would say he has been a good president. The right however will see him as a failure as he hasn't started any new wars and needed Russia to help him get out of the mess he made in Syria.

In truth he has been a good President especially as he has been forced to fight tooth and nail against Congress for every single little policy change he has tried to bring in.

He is probably the best President they have had in the last 4 or 5 presidents.

[arista]

Yes America is not doing good as Obamacare
is wrecking all of the system

[Vicky.]

Would rather Obama was running this country tbh, rather than the shower of **** we have to chose between.

Originally Posted by arista

Yes America is not doing good as Obamacare
is wrecking all of the system

That is complete fox news toss. Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with the economy. The CBO have said it will save them billions, and because people are paying less for healthcare will give them more money to buy things and aid the economy. It's just nonsensical to even spout that stuff, Arista.

The republicans are blocking jobs bills/infrastructure repairs/immigration reform etc which have more of an impact on the economy that the ACA.

Republicans are also trying to hurt the economy even more by refusing to renew an unemployment benefit bill, meaning the people that put all their money into the economy to buy food, won't have that anymore.

You can't just repeat this s**t anymore. You need to explain it.

[arista]

"That is complete fox news toss"


wrong its CBSNews
NBC
ABC
CNN America
Bloomberg
CNBC

and the
Daily Show with John Stewart

Originally Posted by arista

"That is complete fox news toss"


wrong its CBSNews
NBC
ABC
CNN America
Bloomberg
CNBC

and the
Daily Show with John Stewart

That's just a lie. The problems were with the website not the law. The website is miles better now already. No one, apart from right wing nuts that say this law is hurting the economy.

[arista]

No some that were sighing up were advised to say they smoked
to get change the rates - Utter Corruption
undercover recordings

Its a mess

Originally Posted by arista

No some that were sighing up were advised to say they smoked
to get higher rates - Utter Corruption
undercover recordings

Its a mess

They were advised to say that they "didn't smoke" for lower rates. A couple of people, from a right-wing sting operation just trying to set this up. I wonder how many they tried before they found these few?

You said it was hurting the economy originally, and now you've turned it to a couple of people being advised to mislead on their application forms, and that's classed as "utter corruption?"

Your arguments aren't making any sense.

[arista]

Youtube video

[arista]

Youtube video

[Obamacare Navigators counseled applicants by saying:

"You lie because your premiums will be higher."

"Never report it ... I always lie on my applications."

"It didn't happen."]


Corruption


Stinks

Originally Posted by arista

Youtube video

George Will is a famous right wing commentator/talking head, who is paid to say stuff like that. He's also a libertarian, which means he would like government to be pretty non-existent. This is meaningless. Explain to me in words why you think it's hurting the economy, when all independent studies of the affordable care act, say it will reduce the deficit.

Originally Posted by arista

Youtube video

[Obamacare Navigators counseled applicants by saying:

"You lie because your premiums will be higher."

"Never report it ... I always lie on my applications."

"It didn't happen."]


Corruption


Stinks

Yeah - you lie because if you don't, you're premiums will be higher. Meaning that they actually lie to get lower premiums. Who'd have thought that not every person in the whole world would tell the truth if they could save themselves a few dollars.

Also, this has no bearing whatsoever on the actual efficiency/benefits of the law.

[the truth]

Well for the second time this year, I agree with this Jesus character on here. The way the idiots on fox are perverting and misrepresenting obamacare is typically disingenuous and totally irresponsible. That's a war channel stoking up hatred 24/7
strangely it never reports any of obamas monumental achievements...

the monumental challenge of Trying to pass and now implement this comprehensive healthcare bill is second only in difficulty to fighting gun crime.

what exactly happened to those 50 million+ americans who couldn't afford health insurance before this? or working americans who couldn't afford the life saving treatment for various ailments? I saw one documentary where some tax paying working American had sudden heart problems and the bill for surgery for $180,000 which was vastly in excess of the value of his home which had just fallen in the housing crash.?
he had to sell everything and still couldn't afford the surgery....not sure if he died shortly after....no doubt theres millions like him, honest hard working decent patriotic americans left to die on the road

Obama is fighting for the silent majority of hard working decent americans...to do so in the midst of the biggest recession is downright heroic

even the myth that only a republican can run the economy is totally destroyed by Obama/bush/climtons eras
Id also add that bush the radical right winger ran the economy into the dumpster
he even managed to socialize the losses of private companies and destroyed the reputation of America worldwide which in turn played into the hands of radical terrorists seeking to brainwash impressionable young minds....despite also his war mongering and divisive talk about an axis of evil....what did his disastrous foreign policy achieve? deaths to 100s of thousands of innocents and he didn't even go after the one man responsible for 911 - OBL? Yet Obama didn't start any wars and did get OBL and ghadaffi and many many many more henchmen ....he has also smartly managed to avoid mass invasions of any more countries....that alone is quite an achievement for an American president

[user104658]

I respect Obama as a president if only for recently admitting that the "American Dream" ideology is flawed in the current economy. He basically said that US citizens, since the very beginnings of the US, have had the idea that no matter where you start out in life, you can improve your situation by gritting your teeth and working hard, working your way up the ladder. The American Dream... the white picket fence... the idea that a family could stumble off a boat with a few pennies and the clothes on their backs and built a life. It's an idea that the entire nation has been founded on, and it was once true...

However, he recently admitted that those at the top of the pile now have so much power - and those at the bottom are so disadvantaged, and so at risk of falling into the trappings of insurmountable debt, that the dream is no longer true. That those at the bottom have very little chance of forging a better life, no matter how hard they work, and that society at large should be making sure that provisions are in place to HELP those people to climb out of that life and into a better one.

That alone is a very bold statement in America. It's practically blasphemy, in a country that so strongly believes that "picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and trucking onwards" is all that it takes to "make it"... that still for the mostpart believes the illusion that achievement in this world is generally based on merit.

So for an American president to see that and admit it, is pretty huge.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I respect Obama as a president if only for recently admitting that the "American Dream" ideology is flawed in the current economy. He basically said that US citizens, since the very beginnings of the US, have had the idea that no matter where you start out in life, you can improve your situation by gritting your teeth and working hard, working your way up the ladder. The American Dream... the white picket fence... the idea that a family could stumble off a boat with a few pennies and the clothes on their backs and built a life. It's an idea that the entire nation has been founded on, and it was once true...

However, he recently admitted that those at the top of the pile now have so much power - and those at the bottom are so disadvantaged, and so at risk of falling into the trappings of insurmountable debt, that the dream is no longer true. That those at the bottom have very little chance of forging a better life, no matter how hard they work, and that society at large should be making sure that provisions are in place to HELP those people to climb out of that life and into a better one.

That alone is a very bold statement in America. It's practically blasphemy, in a country that so strongly believes that "picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and trucking onwards" is all that it takes to "make it"... that still for the mostpart believes the illusion that achievement in this world is generally based on merit.

So for an American president to see that and admit it, is pretty huge.

the gap between rich and poor is bigger in western countries now than it was 200 years ago....though it has to be qualified by saying the poor do at least share in some of the benefits of our advancements

however the gap between rich and poor is even greater in the UK than the USA...in the us the top 1% own 50%...in the UK the top 1% own 60% of the uk wealth

the fact Obama is covering the poorest peoples health concerns is the SINGLE BIGGEST LEAP THE POOREST PEOPLE HAVE EVER MADE.....
put frankly poor people cant afford to live anymore....obamacare gives them this chance....who knows what they can do with it....one things for certain it will make America much stronger and fairer

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I respect Obama as a president if only for recently admitting that the "American Dream" ideology is flawed in the current economy. He basically said that US citizens, since the very beginnings of the US, have had the idea that no matter where you start out in life, you can improve your situation by gritting your teeth and working hard, working your way up the ladder. The American Dream... the white picket fence... the idea that a family could stumble off a boat with a few pennies and the clothes on their backs and built a life. It's an idea that the entire nation has been founded on, and it was once true...

However, he recently admitted that those at the top of the pile now have so much power - and those at the bottom are so disadvantaged, and so at risk of falling into the trappings of insurmountable debt, that the dream is no longer true. That those at the bottom have very little chance of forging a better life, no matter how hard they work, and that society at large should be making sure that provisions are in place to HELP those people to climb out of that life and into a better one.

That alone is a very bold statement in America. It's practically blasphemy, in a country that so strongly believes that "picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and trucking onwards" is all that it takes to "make it"... that still for the mostpart believes the illusion that achievement in this world is generally based on merit.

So for an American president to see that and admit it, is pretty huge.

If you look at your post which I totally agree with there is another side to the idea that the American dream has failed. As you rightly say the poorest cannot now ever achieve the dream but this means the richest few have had the odds stacked too highly in their favour.

Why are they able to make millions or billions at the expense of millions of impoverished Americans. The Govt needs to look at how to spread the wealth better and put into place checks and controls to stop this runaway wealth for a small minority. Taxes on wealth should be introduced, caps on bonuses and limits to profits made by financial institutions.

Rampant Capitalism has a lot to answer for. Maybe it's time America embraced a more socialist philosophy...????