[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's an insult to compare the two, If I saw an adult mocking someone else for having ginger hair I'd think them too ridiculous to take it seriously. It's just not in the same league. I got a lot of jibes at school because I wore glasses but I wouldn't compare childish remarks to homophobia.

Like I said before, which you conveniently ignored because you probably had no argument against it, your daughter regardless of her hair colour will never face anything close to the same struggles a gay person would because ginger people aren't treated like second class citizens by their own government. Being Ginger has never been persecuted by law. Being Ginger doesn't mean you can't marry someone else, Adoption isn't made any more difficult because you're ginger ETC.

Just look at all the different countries in the world that don't have equal rights for gay people, how many countries do you think persecute people for having ginger hair?

I'm not conveniently ignoring anything, I am just trying to show the arbitrary nature of prejudice. Prejudice happens because of the mores of society. In ancient Greek and Persian times (I am a Classicist) homosexuality was the norm, and in warriors, celebrated. Amongst the Spartans you were not classed as a warrior unless you *********d men.

What I AM trying to say is that social mores are dictated by the climate of society you live in. A hundred years ago, and in a different place, it would be the norm. Who can judge a norm?

Just because there are a lot of people stirring up what is right and wrong does not make their cause any more real or important. Why are Taliban beliefs wrong? Because you have been brought up in a secular society. So have I. I am not saying they are right.

Why would you feel that ginges or speccys or goths (recent goth hate killing) don't have the same right to any protections that gays have? As always, just curious.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Because people don't hate gingers or fatties. I can't comment on your daughters situation because it would be wrong of me, and it's your life, but I've never heard of anyone ever being beaten for being ginger. I just haven't.

It's not something that even begins to make sense to me.

My daughter *was* beaten for being ginger.

[Jezzy]

Tell you what, just because I am in argumentative mood, let's try this:

You ARE discriminated upon by councils for adoption taking age / weight / smoking preferences into account.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Tell you what, just because I am in argumentative mood, let's try this:

You ARE discriminated upon by councils for adoption taking age / weight / smoking preferences into account.

Probably? What's the point you're trying to make? People will discriminate against others for things they believe that another person has chosen to do which does not sit well with their own personal choices. Non-smokers judging smokers to be unfit parents; homophobic non-homosexuals judging homosexuals to be unfit parents - you wouldn't get that if you were ginger or had glasses or freckles or were 6'5" or 5'0" or had curly hair.............

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

Probably? What's the point you're trying to make? People will discriminate against others for things they believe that another person has chosen to do which does not sit well with their own personal choices. Non-smokers judging smokers to be unfit parents; homophobic non-homosexuals judging homosexuals to be unfit parents - you wouldn't get that if you were ginger or had glasses or freckles or were 6'5" or 5'0" or had curly hair.............

The point I am trying to make is that people will use prejudice to their own ends. And who can judge which prejudice is worse than another?

[Glenn.]

@ some of the comments in this thread

Originally Posted by Glenn

@ some of the comments in this thread

Shut your mouth, you big ginger gay!

[Glenn.]

I wish I was a big ginger gay

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Shut your mouth, you big ginger gay!

I am actually coming around to Christianity.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

The point I am trying to make is that people will use prejudice to their own ends. And who can judge which prejudice is worse than another?

I agree with that. I would say that people will judge certain prejudices to be worse than others by virtue of how institutionalised they are - sexism, racism, homophobia will be considered by our society to be more of a problem than comments about weight, height or appearance because laws and religious teachings don't discriminate against people for their weight/height/appearance as they sometimes do against people for their gender/race/sexual orientation. But as you said (I can't remember your exact words) in another post, what's one generation's norm is another generation's problem, or another generation's yesterday's news.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

I agree with that. I would say that people will judge certain prejudices to be worse than others by virtue of how institutionalised they are - sexism, racism, homophobia will be considered by our society to be more of a problem than comments about weight, height or appearance because laws and religious teachings don't discriminate against people for their weight/height/appearance as they sometimes do against people for their gender/race/sexual orientation. But as you said (I can't remember your exact words) in another post, what's one generation's norm is another generation's problem, or another generation's yesterday's news.

We do agree. I honestly don't understand why some prejudices should be worse than others. I hate everyone equally

[Kazanne]

Surely it boils down to some people do not like gay people,some people do not like black people/white people,fat people,ginger people,all sorts of people,I don't think we will ever change that sadly.

[Bluerang1]

This is offensive and comparing race to sexuality isn't? I'm glad I don't live in the UK anymore. USA!

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

This is what I meant when I said you have no knowledge of the gay community Evander was talking about therefore a very handsome gay man like myself finds it hard to take you seriously.

Some examples for you

- same-sex marriage will come into effect in England and Wales in mid-2014 ITS STILL NOT LEGAL ()

-Gay people were not allowed to apply for adopting a child until 2001 meaning the government thought a child being brought up by a gay couple would be worse than putting a child into care or foster homes

-I think it wasn't until roughly 2000 that gay people were allowed to serve in the military openly people like you and Evander don't understand the struggles gay people do actually face and how much they have had to fight to get the same right

This is why the Evander comments were met with such outrage.

Its only in the last 15 years or so that gay couples have finally been recognised as in love and have had their relationships recognised by a country that they love.

God I sound so gay but its true lol.

There are many gay conversion camps though that he would love us to attend aka cults! How does singing in a forest make you straight? If anything it just makes you feel like Bambi.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Bluerang1

This is offensive and comparing race to sexuality isn't? I'm glad I don't live in the UK anymore. USA!

Yeah, the US is so much more tolerant. How are any prejudices more important than others? Please, if you can, tell me why one prejudice is any worse then another. Take out what social pressures have errrr pressured, and tell me why it is any more acceptable to salute an anti-prejudice pressure group than any other. Numbers? Does that make it right?

[Bluerang1]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Yeah, the US is so much more tolerant. How are any prejudices more important than others? Please, if you can, tell me why one prejudice is any worse then another. Take out what social pressures have errrr pressured, and tell me why it is any more acceptable to salute an anti-prejudice pressure group than any other. Numbers? Does that make it right?

OMG are you actually being serious? Gay people can walk anywhere and people don't notice their sexuality but when you are of a certain race that is noticed. Of course being racist is far worse because you're judging someone based on a physical trait and shouldn't even be considered. Like Chuff said, gays aren't never lacked in any rights really except for having families which isn't even a big deal. Talk to me when they've been enslaved, denied the right to vote, et cetera. Ignorant please.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

This is what I meant by commenting on a thread without any knowledge of the community Evander was talking about.

Ok so...

- same-sex marriage will come into effect in England and Wales in mid-2014 ()

Gay people were not allowed to apply for adopting a child until 2001 meaning the government thought a child being brought up by a gay couple would be worse than putting a child into care or foster homes l

I think it wasn't until roughly 2000 that gay people were allowed to serve in the military openly people like you and Evander don't understand the struggles gay people do actually face and how much they have had to fight to get the same right

This is why the Evander comments were met with such outrage.

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

[Jezzy]

And BlueRang I do agree with you in that race is something immediately apparent. Try looking Arab when you fly post-2001.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Surely it boils down to some people do not like gay people,some people do not like black people/white people,fat people,ginger people,all sorts of people,I don't think we will ever change that sadly.

You cannot change how people think ,and the more you tell people they MUST love this ,that and the other,the more they rebel

[Apple202]

Originally Posted by Bluerang1

OMG are you actually being serious? Gay people can walk anywhere and people don't notice their sexuality but when you are of a certain race that is noticed. Of course being racist is far worse because you're judging someone based on a physical trait and shouldn't even be considered. Like Chuff said, gays aren't never lacked in any rights really except for having families which isn't even a big deal. Talk to me when they've been enslaved, denied the right to vote, et cetera. Ignorant please.

none of which occurs now so bye

[Apple202]

Originally Posted by Bluerang1

This is offensive and comparing race to sexuality isn't? I'm glad I don't live in the UK anymore. USA!

lol please, sorry for valuing civil rights more than the ability to shoot all our neighbours

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

They cant MARRY us its not legal.

The Bible says "Maybe there should just be another word?" that's hilarious. You say im only talking 13 years ago but that's the thing its ONLY 13 YEARS. That's such a long time for gay people to get any positive recognition for the country they live in and some that fight for in the armed forces.

If I wanted to marry my boyfriend tomorrow I couldn't because its illegal for me to do so. Is that right?

If you don't know the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership I will refer you to google.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Seanbon

[B][I]

If he has been raised in a fundamental Christian family/church,this belief has probably been preached to him as a fact! To him it is a fact,no matter how abhorrent it is to the you or I?!?
His understanding of BB is debatable too! I don't think he realises that every conversation is picked up and/or broadcast!?!

I was raised in a Catholic family, the Catholic church had one of the most ridiculous stances as to being gay.

Namely that they hate the sin but love the sinner. such nonsense didn't influence me and the more people that were gay that I got to know showed me how daft that idea and ruling of the church is.
It is now at long last making some overtones as to the issue but still has a massive way to go to be credible as to it.

However religion aside, whatever his religion is,Evander is not a young man, I am only 21,it is for me at any rate, not acceptable to hear someone of such so called maturity spouting out such harmful, wrong and to many offensive opinionated garbage.

He will also well know that there are cameras on the go 24/7 in the house too. I cannot see how he couldn't possibly be aware of that fact.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

I think civil partnerships don't cover certain legal issues that marriage does, like if one partner dies, the civil partner's rights regarding their partner in the event of death etc, not really too sure on the specifics though!

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

They cant MARRY us its not legal.

The Bible says "Maybe there should just be another word?" that's hilarious. You say im only talking 13 years ago but that's the thing its ONLY 13 YEARS. That's such a long time for gay people to get any positive recognition for the country they live in and some that fight for in the armed forces.

If you don't know the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership I will refer you to google.

I do know the difference, thanks, I'm a lawyer. I'm not even talking about recognition. I'm also an ex-soldier, so I also know about gays in the military. All I'm saying is that the word marriage applies to one set of circumstances. What's the problem with having a different word with the same rights to reflect a different sexuality?