[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm not saying what he did wasn't necessary nor am I saying he isn't a great man; I'm answering Kazanne's question about why some people call him a terrorist. There are two sides to every coin and just as Nelson Mandela represents the oppressed who finally overthrew the people oppressing them; there were people who felt negative effects from Mandela's (and others like him) brutal campaign to eradicate apartheid. I believe violence is always wrong; fighting for peace is after all a contradiction. Historically he will be considered a freedom fighter, a figure of change and one of the most important Africans in modern history. But he is a human being who faced a great deal of sorrow and struggle to get to that point, which is why there will always be people who point out the nasty side of how he achieved his goals.

Vladimir Lenin did everything in his power to create change before violence was used to get rid of the Romanovs, in order to make life better for every day people. He overthrew an oppressive monarchy to introduce communism, a fair life for all. He didn't live long enough to see his goals be realised, sadly for him, but is he remembered as a freedom fighter; someone who brought about change for the good of his people? No, the context of what the Soviet Union later became completely changed that perception of his good work.

'In a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act'
Fighting for peace is an oxymoron, sleeping safe and sound in your fluffy bed it's easy to say you abhor violence. While there are men fighting to keep you free.
I can't comment on Lenin until I have read some information, could you recommend some?

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'In a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act'
Fighting for peace is an oxymoron, sleeping safe and sound in your fluffy bed it's easy to say you abhor violence. While there are men fighting to keep you free.
I can't comment on Lenin until I have read some information, could you recommend some?

Nothing specifically, I've been studing history, politics and international relations of central/eastern Europe for the last few years, just an opinion I've built up over the years - but for context I'd recommend reading about the Tsar's regime to get a feel for why Communism gained traction in Russia (majority of the population were peasants etc) and then look at Lenin's interpretations of Marxism and his leadership style; then how that was thrown out the window by Stalin when he seized power after Lenin's untimely death. He was a fascinating man, not one that I can ever really decide upon as to whether or not he was good or bad but certainly a very interesting one, he turned Communism from an exercise in theory to an actual reality in a functioning state and managed to take the Soviet Union through most of the stages before he died. Ultimately for Communism to work though, there can't in theory be a leader because all people need to be equal and live equally... he did a very good job though, regardless of your opinions of the actual politics behind it!

Totally off topic now but I hope this thread's been useful for Kaz... I think Nelson Mandela deserves to be remembered as a great man who helped to modernise the world as we know it, without him and others like him, South Africa would have continued to be oppressed by a white minority.

[Kizzy]

Coolness!