[Cal.]

Just thought I'd start this up due to it being a heavily debated topic, and the subject being brought up in another thread. There's very compelling, telling, controversial and mysterious evidence surrounding the fateful night on which Marilyn Monroe died, but what do you think happened? Her death certificate states: 'probable suicide', despite the drug she had supposedly overdosed on not being found in her system - the coroner wrote this because she had a history of overdosing and being resuscitated.

(Please feel free to bring evidence you're basing your opinion on into the thread as well!)

There was a very telling documentary on Channel 5 last week actually, talking about the night of her death, but I don't know whether it was just a theory of the makers' or not, considering it seemed to place every single suspect of her death at her house on the night she died.

[Crimson Dynamo]

drugs overdose

no mystery

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

drugs overdose

no mystery

total rubbish - not worthy of you LT. The evidence that Greenson and Robert Kennedy murdered Marilyn is overwhelming.

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

total rubbish - not worthy of you LT. The evidence that Greenson and Robert Kennedy murdered Marilyn is overwhelming.

I agree. The drugs she'd supposedly overdosed on weren't found in her system either. The position she was lying in when found was faced down on the bed also, if she had an overdose she would have been in excruciating pain and would not have felt comfortable in the position she was in at all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

total rubbish - not worthy of you LT. The evidence that Greenson and Robert Kennedy murdered Marilyn is overwhelming.

So who came forward and testified to this?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So who came forward and testified to this?

How does one overdose on a drug without it entering their system?

[Cal.]

LT is just trying to be controversial

[Shaun]

I hardly think saying a death was an overdose rather than some massive conspiracy is controversial

[Crimson Dynamo]

Like all things like this the conspiracy relies on humans keeping stum for many years and the evidence shows that this is impossible, like 9/11

people cannot accept that someone famous dies a dull and boring death
she did, move on

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I hardly think saying a death was an overdose rather than some massive conspiracy is controversial

LT is going against the majority of what people think because they know it'll get a reaction - when really they have no real belief in the thing they're pushing is true. It's the same with LT supporting Stevi Richie - they have no real belief Stevi is good or deserves to be in the competition, they just support him because they know it annoys other people on the forum and therefore they'll get a reaction from it.

[bots]

Well, as stated, it wasn't uncommon for her to need assistance in recovering from an attempted od, so on that basis, why would anyone need to murder her? Just make a selection of her favourite drugs available to her and wait. Have to agree that it would seem yet another conspiracy theory. People always want to see more in things than there actually ever is.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

The kennedys had her killed due to secrets she was about to release about them.


Source: my instincts

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

LT is going against the majority of what people think because they know it'll get a reaction - when really they have no real belief in the thing they're pushing is true. It's the same with LT supporting Stevi Richie - they have no real belief Stevi is good or deserves to be in the competition, they just support him because they know it annoys other people on the forum and therefore they'll get a reaction from it.

Bang on Bullseye 1000% correct Who Is She - that's exactly what LT is up to.

[Northern Monkey]

I am usually the last person to believe in conspiracy theories.
In this case though i don't think it's a mystery that it was murder and i don't think it's a mystery who atleast arranged it,I'd say it's fairly obvious,infact i would'nt even call it a conspiracy as an obvious cover up.
Now if you want a mystery look at Jimmy Hendrix's death.

[Cal.]

Some more facts which go against the overdose theory -

There was no glass in the room for Marilyn to have taken the pills, and she was known to gag on just one pill WITH water, so taking so many WITHOUT water would have been incredibly difficult for her.

She apparently overdosed at 9/10 pm, but had spoken with her ex Joe DiMaggio on the phone just an hour before, and was ecstatic that he had broken off his engagement with a women she hated, and Marilyn thought the pair stood a chance of getting back together. Why would a women overdose an hour or two after being ecstatic at the chance of reconciling with the man she loved?

Leading on from this point, her career was picking up as well as her personal life, and she had spent the afternoon after her meeting with Ralph Greenson planning for future film roles and events, why would she overdose when her life was looking up for the first time in months?

[Crimson Dynamo]

9/11


Źzzzźzźzzzz

[Cal.]

If you're not interested in debating about it, then don't bother posting in the thread. You seem to be on a mission to try and stop all discussion with your 'points'.

[Mazz01]

Hi, i'm mazz i have a friend currently writing a book on Marilyn's life, they have done lots of extensive research on these murder theories

First of all let's look at the facts. 25 Nembutal and at least 8
chloral hydrate in Marilyn's system the time of her death. How did it
get there? Well, there was no injection....and the enema theory is
about ridiculous and has next to no evidence....Marilyn took them
herself.
Accidentally? You don't take 33 pills accidentally. Maybe she
misjudged? Again, you don't take 33 pills and hope to live.

Let me clarify some thing:

"No “yellow trail” caused by the melting of the caps of Nembutal, which
usually leave a trail (though Noguchi claimed it was usual in ODs
experienced by drug abusers)"

Nembutal's do not leave a yellow 'trail' behind....the dye in the
capsules does not behave in this way.

No crystals were found in her stomach and duodenum (though Noguchi
claimed it was usual in ODs experiences by drug abusers, charts have
always proven the contrary)

I do not know what 'charts' these would be but it is absolutely
possible for drugs to pass through an empty stomach of a habitual user
without a trace....the strong stomach acid would dissolve a handful of
pills in UNDER 10 MINUTES....within 30-45 minutes there would be no
trace left, especially in a person highly used to receiving the
medication.

Because of the amount of drugs found in her blood, she should have
passed out before all the drugs had been processed by her organs :
there is NO way the stomach could be empty:

The stomach acid was more than capable to dissolve all the pills in
under 10 minutes, while Marilyn was still awake....even in a coma the
body would continue to move the drugs from the stomach into the
intestines.
It would not take a long time for the drugs to pass on....we are
talking less than an hour.

In ALL reported and studied cases of ODs similar to Marilyn’s case
(same blood and liver levels), there are ALWAYS contents in the
stomach. Why would things be different in Marilyn’s case?

It all depends on the severity of the drugproblem, weather the people
had eaten before or not....the fact that Marilyn's stomach was found
empty only points toward the sad fact that she had a huge drug problem
acquired over many years.

According to the pharmacist’s invoice from Monroe's estate, Marilyn
didn't have more than 25 Nembutal capsules at hand that last week so
the prescription was filled again on Aug. 3rd). Her last prescription
having been filled in June, it is hardly believable that as a drug
addict she would have kept some of the capsules from that June
prescription somewhere. She had used all of them by then.

According to the bloodcount there were about 25 Nembutal (and some
chloral hydrate) in her blood...the prescription filled from the day
before. The pills filled on aug. 3rd show up in her bloodstream the
next day, all of them!

Again let's look at the FACTS

Marilyn was in trouble and looking at her last months before her death
(and her actions), one can see that. Some say that she had everything
to live for, re-hired by the studio (for a movie that was god awful and
she knew it she had to repeat the same dumb blonde sex image all over
again)...and then what? She must have felt that her only security and
power, that as a sexy moviestar, was slipping away...the only thing
that gathered her attention and love was going to be over....with it
the adoration of the masses.....nothing but loneliness ahead.Maybe
somebody else like Kathreen Hepburn or Greta Garbo were stronger and
didn't care and went on about their Lives.....but Marilyn had no
family...no husband and children even......couldn't do anything else
besides being a sexy moviestar....she still wasn't receiving the
respect she wanted and now they were all talking about "poor
Marilyn"...her mental state of mind, her firing, her drugabuse, her
failed marriages.Maybe Marilyn just felt like a failure and didn't have
the mental strength to pull out of that....


Before people believe the murder theories ''lets take a look at
Marilyn's life in the last year and a half''

Early 1961: checked into a hospital for her drugabuse, depression and
possible suicidal behavior.Spring 1961: released to Joe DiMaggio but
Marilyn ditches him to hang with hard partying Sinatra crowd.

summer 1961: Gallbladder removal, blamed on her heavy barbiturate
consumption. Marilyn looks heavy and bloated.

Late summer 1961: Marilyn returns to her old stomping ground. Los
Angeles. Moves into her old apartment with minimal furnishings. (it
looked more like a bare hotel room than an apartment of a movie-star).

Late 1961: DETOX under 24-hour nursing supervision through Dr.
Greenson. Marilyn looses a lot of weight.

Early 1962: Marilyn moved into a small house in Brentwood by herself.
She appears intoxicated at a highly public event (GOLDEN GLOBES)

Spring 1962: Marilyn shows for work on her last movie over a week
late.....she misses more days than she works. She does a nude scene for
the film. (a sharp departure from wanting to be a 'serous actress'
during her New York years). She claims to be to sick to work yet takes
a strenuous trip to new York and back to L.A. in 2 days to appear drunk
one again at the Kennedy Gala, further exhausting her. (No doubt in
desperation to contact the Kennedy's.

Summer 1962: the day after Marilyn's 36th birthday. The Greenson
children speak of a depressed Marilyn, high on drugs, complaining about
her age and loneliness, all she does is stay in bed all day feeling
miserable.

Summer 1962 Marilyn is officially fired from "something's got to give"
and falls into an even deeper depression. Dr. Greenson has to cut short
a overseas trip to tend to a drugged out Monroe at her house. Marilyn
apparently had also suffered facial injuries, possibly due to a fall
while intoxicated.

Rumours that Dr Greenson beat Marilyn are unfounded and quite
ridiculous and would have gotten Greenson in a heap of trouble through
Newcomb or DiMaggio, still a presence in Monroe's Life). People are
afraid to leave her alone now Susan Strasberg says this and the fact
that Pat newcomb was over there 24-7 attests to this...also, the hiring
of Mrs. Murray and Greenson and Engelberg's frequent housecalls...

Mid summer 1962: Marilyn starts up a desperate campaign to keep her in
the public eye with semi-nude photo sessions where she appears a bit
haggard,intoxicated...though she still looks attractive you can still
see a glint of unhappiness in her eyes?

July 1962: Marilyn is rumored to have been highly intoxicated to the
point of embarrassment at the Cal neva with the Lawfords and Frank
Sinatra, again Marilyn is seen looking depressed as the day goes on and
there are a few photo's of that day confirming this?


And that was the sad reality of Marilyn's life... just before she had
died!!

These murder theories just don't hold up with any real evidence and the recent channel 5 documentary on Marilyn suggests the injection murder theory, but there was no fresh injection tracks seen on her body in the autopsy report, which you would had to be as blind as Bat if you had completely missed those marks???

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

Some more facts which go against the overdose theory -

There was no glass in the room for Marilyn to have taken the pills, and she was known to gag on just one pill WITH water, so taking so many WITHOUT water would have been incredibly difficult for her.

?

Hi, can i also clear up something here, there was actually a glass tumbler next to Marilyn's bed side on the floor, when she had went to Mexico in the early months of 62 she had went looking for new home accessories, these included water glass tumbler's that can be seen on a auction website of Marilyn's belongings, there you will also see the same dark glass tumbler on the floor it's there on the police photo of Marilyn's bedroom?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

People always want to see more in things than there actually ever is.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, where do we begin? Although the only logical conclusion that any rational, impartial person who researches Marilyn’s death can come to is murder, the enormity of such research in having to sift through all the sheer wealth of documentation concerning her last hours, in order to separate lie from fact, is not a task to be entered into lightly.

I am lucky, in that I have long been convinced that Marilyn was murdered and have therefore already read and researched a lot of the many books (own several) and articles concerning her death. Much of what I have learnt and suspected has been confirmed by the excellent recent Channel 5 documentary ‘Conspiracy; The Missing Evidence’ referred to by Who Is She – but more than just confirming, this documentary does, indeed, fill in the missing pieces with new evidence.

I think it’s important for anyone who has been seduced by the official propaganda and is therefore of the mindset that the Kennedy’s were honourable politicians and men who were above such ‘preposterous’ allegations, to research this clan – starting with the Patriarch Joe Kennedy.

If you do, you will learn not only discover that all the Kennedy's were sexual predators who make Bill Clinton look like a Trappist Monk by comparison, but you will also learn how Joe Kennedy acquired his millions through bootlegging, how he covertly used his money and connections with mobsters, celebrities, and the CIA and FBI, to get his sons elected to power - making many promises to them in return, only for him to ‘betray’ these people once his sons were duly elected. This trait of using people and then ditching them was continued by John, Bobby and Edward Kennedy, and was at the root of JFK and Bobby’s assassination.

During such research, you will discover the many ‘victims’ of the Kennedy’s duplicity, including, Cuban exiles who were promised that if they would invade Cuba and re-take it from Fidel Castro, the USA would give them ‘air support’ in the first instance and other support from there. This led to the ‘Bay of Pigs’ fiasco where the gullible exiles were betrayed with no such support.

The ousting of Castro was also one of the many clandestine promises made by the Kennedy’s to Joe Kennedy’s mobster pals because when Castro came to power, he booted the mafia off the island, seized their assets and closed all the casinos – the source of billions in mob revenue, and the mob were keen to reestablish themselves in a newly 'liberated' and 'liberal' Cuba .

Various covert inducements were also made to the mob in return for their ‘teamster votes’ to get his sons elected – one of which was that if Bobby was elected to Attorney General he would – naturally – implement ’soft policies’ on mob criminal activities. Once elected however, Bobby went after the mob with a vengeance. It may make you question why Jimmy Hoffa boss of the teamsters union subsequently suddenly 'disappeared'.

Among the many ‘powerful’ and 'persuasive' celebrities who were ‘courted’ by the Kennedy’s and used by them to get elected and re-elected, only to be ditched, were Peter Lawford and Frank Sinatra. Frank was utterly inconsolable when his ‘close friend’ JFK distanced himself from him once Frank’s usefulness to JFK was overshadowed by his growing infamy because of his association with mobster boss Sam Giancana (Frank co-owned the Cal Neva Lodge with Giancana) but – unlike Lawford, who was Kennedy’s brother-in-law – Frank never publicly ‘turned’ on the Kennedy’s or publicly revealed what he knew about their shady practices (though he revealed plenty 'off the record'). Does this 'using and subsequent 'betrayal by ditching' pattern remind you of JFK and Bobby's callous treatment of Marilyn? All will be made clear later.

Add to all this Senator Edward Kennedy - another corrupt, womanising, drunkard hypocrite Kennedy, one, who (like brother Bobby) used his power and connections to, quite literally, ‘get away with murder.

On July 18, 1969, Edward Kennedy was driving back from a party with pretty, 28 year old Campaign Worker Mary Jo Kapechne in his car, when his car plunged off the Chappaquidick bridge into a body of deep water. Coward Kennedy saved himself and swam ashore leaving Kapechne trapped in the back seats. He didn’t report the incident for a full nine hours by which time Mary Jo was found dead by rescuers. What’s utterly shocking is that Mary Jo had survived for several hours after the plunge – having been kept alive by an air pocket within the car. Divers maintained that had Kennedy reported the incident straight away, they would have definitely found Mary Jo alive. Subsequent Medical evidence substantiated this. It was alleged that Mary Jo was being 'used' by Kennedy for sex a la JFK and Bobby with Marilyn, but he not surprisingly denied this. He also denied being drunk, but nine hours gave him plenty of time to sober up, clean his dick, and make sufficient telephone calls to all the right people in order to best extricate himself from this 'career' and liberty threatening situation. (Remind you of Bobby Kennedy and Greenson's 5 hour delay reporting Marilyn's death to the police? It will become clear later.)

Instead of being charged with homicide, Kennedy used his power and connections to have the charge kept to 'Leaving the scene of an accident’ and was given a mere two-year suspended sentence and had his driving licence suspended for a year, although - thankfully - this did all but end his aspirations to follow his brother into the Oval Office.

Read up on this hateful clan of hypocrites, then decide for yourselves if this ‘stock’ was more than capable of having murder committed in order to preserve their status.

I am posting a detailed summary of the case for Marilyn's murder shortly.

[Smithy]

[Crimson Dynamo]

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

Hi, i'm mazz i have a friend currently writing a book on Marilyn's life, they have done lots of extensive research on these murder theories

These murder theories just don't hold up with any real evidence and the recent channel 5 documentary on Marilyn suggests the injection murder theory, but there was no fresh injection tracks seen on her body in the autopsy report, which you would had to be as blind as Bat if you had completely missed those marks???

Hi Mazz and welcome to TIBB. You have posted a very eloquent and detailed case against Marilyn being murdered, and I look forward to an interesting exchange of views with you because I strongly believe that Marilyn was not only murdered, but also that Robert Kennedy was implicated up to his neck.

I have not time yet to answer you in depth (and depth is surely mandatory given the complexity of subject) but I will say that with all due respect your post is neither factual nor convincing.

You begin by stating; "Let's look at the facts" but then go on to relate unsubstantiated opinion and hypothesis.

Anyway, welcome, and as I say, I much look forward to a healthy, civilised debate on this subject.

[Kyle]

I'm going to bookmark this thread because I have a feeling this is going to be a good one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I'm going to bookmark this thread because I have a feeling this is going to be a good one.

Woman has a friend who is writing a book on subject.

Woman says all the conspiracy theories are bogus


Not looking good for thread