[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

No. Muslims wouldn't want their prophet to be degraded like that.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah it is totally by choice and quite often also chosen by the children themselves..(the school council..)...they're given the choice of a Nativity or an alternative and they quite often choose the alternative ..but it's always a good children's Christmas Story as well and with a mixture of traditional songs and some more current ones ...personally I think it makes it more interesting for all of us..staff/parents and children, rather than doing the same thing every year ...

Thats not the issue though Ammi, its about modernising the Christmas Story and removing the religious figures, by all means do something else but leave the Christmas Story as it is, no one needs to see Elvis in the manger

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Thats not the issue though Ammi, its about modernising the Christmas Story and removing the religious figures, by all means do something else but leave the Christmas Story as it is, no one needs to see Elvis in the manger

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Lily'sWeaveAngel

Nobody I know cares about Christianity at xmas and stuff that much so it's not a massive deal, there shouldn't be just one religion to celebrate at xmas either, I have lit never talked about religion on here but I know a few people who celebrate xmas in a different way and your making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas?

I'm 'making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas' - because there is -- Christianity. The clue is in the name.

It's not called AllahMas or Siddhartha Gautamamas or Quatermass - it's called Christ Mas, meaning The Mass of Christ, or Festival of Christ, and is specifically to celebrate the birth (and death) of Jesus Christ. So it is a Christian Festivity.

If people choose not to observe the true meaning of Christmas then that's up to them. Just don't try to alter or eradicate Christian traditions and ridicule Christian beliefs on one of the most holiest days in the Christian calendar, by rewriting the Nativity and substituting characters like Elvis or Spongebob Fecking Squarepants for Jesus, Mary and Joseph, because this is highly offensive to Christians.

I'd like to see the fecking reaction from British, bleeding heart, Politically Correct, liberals, if I staged 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show' outside any Mosque during 'Mawlid al-Nabi' or 'Ramadam-adingdong'. They'd soon be bayiing for blood.

[Scarlett.]

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

Pushy parent alert

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

Children don't like going to school Chewy, but I don't see anybody altering schools and turning them into Amusement parks.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

The ones who are Mary just want to sit down through the whole thing the lazy bastards.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Christmarsh.

The ones who are Mary just want to sit down through the whole thing the lazy bastards.

The inn keeper is the most coveted role

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Children don't like going to school Chewy, but I don't see anybody altering schools and turning them into Amusement parks.

Adding silly characters to plays isn't anything new, they did it back all the way back in the 90s, hell the school nativity I was in had three astronauts instead of three wise men That would have been 2001, I think.

[Marsh.]

Why were astronauts in Bethlehem over 2000 years ago?

Or was this set on the moon?

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Christmarsh.

Why were astronauts in Bethlehem over 2000 years ago?

Or was this set on the moon?

Time travel I think

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Thats not the issue though Ammi, its about modernising the Christmas Story and removing the religious figures, by all means do something else but leave the Christmas Story as it is, no one needs to see Elvis in the manger

..I don't see it as an issue at all though Cherie..tbh, it doesn't say that the story has been changed at all..just that there are some 'modern characters' added ..and that might be for comedy effect which the children..(and hopefully parents as well..)..would appreciate..maybe not those mums in the OP but they could be very much a minority of parents who didn't like it..who didn't appreciate the school putting their own interpretation on the story..who didn't want any deviation from a traditional nativity... but the school may have felt that story/interpretation was much more relevant to their students...or what the students wanted themselves...?..there may have been many more parents who did enjoy it...far more than didn't...

[Marsh.]

Ammi so wants to see Elvis in the manger.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm 'making it sound like there's only one main religion to celebrate at xmas' - because there is -- Christianity. The clue is in the name.

It's not called AllahMas or Siddhartha Gautamamas or Quatermass - it's called Christ Mas, meaning The Mass of Christ, or Festival of Christ, and is specifically to celebrate the birth (and death) of Jesus Christ. So it is a Christian Festivity.

If people choose not to observe the true meaning of Christmas then that's up to them. Just don't try to alter or eradicate Christian traditions and ridicule Christian beliefs on one of the most holiest days in the Christian calendar, by rewriting the Nativity and substituting characters like Elvis or Spongebob Fecking Squarepants for Jesus, Mary and Joseph, because this is highly offensive to Christians.

I'd like to see the fecking reaction from British, bleeding heart, Politically Correct, liberals, if I staged 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show' outside any Mosque during 'Mawlid al-Nabi' or 'Ramadam-adingdong'. They'd soon be bayiing for blood.

correct

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

Really, there doesn't seem to be the same need to spice up Halloween, kids are quite happy to dress up year on year and pretend to be the walking dead, and we know that doesn't happen either, its all down to this country's problem with Christianity, as Eyeball Paul has said we are practically falling over backwards to embrace EID and Diwali, but they too are based on stories so I really don't get why people who have no interest in it keep trying to get rid of it, I don't have any interest in EID or Diwali but am happy to let people get on with it. :idc

Good post indeed Cherie and I agree totally with you.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good post indeed Cherie and I agree totally with you.

Ditto.

[Scarlett.]

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The inn keeper is the most coveted role

It Certainly was at the school my friend works at.
One very naughty young boy called Stanley brought the house down.
When Joseph knocked at the door and asked if there was any room at the Inn, Stanley replied " no there isn't, now ******* off to the stable.


We have had many a laugh at the antics of young Stanley

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

its true

almost all news channels are biased in their own ways...

we should always be tolerent of other peoples beliefs, but I also think that the people who come here should respect our traditions '

although saying that, i've never met a muslim who thinks, '**** ENGLAND AND ITS CHRISTIAN WAYS!!!!'

its just a load of crap said by the media.

Most muslims ive met are very accepting and understanding

[Northern Monkey]

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

yea the daily mail invented all the radical islam, taking over school curriculums, the terror threats, the acts of mass murder. nasty people from the mail telling us whats going on in our country

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by the truth

yea the daily mail invented all the radical islam, taking over school curriculums, the terror threats, the acts of mass murder. nasty people from the mail telling us whats going on in our country

I don't know what to say, other than lol.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

I totally agree. well said

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

I'm not basing my reaction specifically on the linked article posted by LT Chewie, but also on my own experiences dealing with certain muslim Asian dignitaries and the inexplicable changes to long traditional policies in certain schools and even nursing homes within my area over the years.

It will be a long post to just outline the details, but here goes: My children went to a very reputable Church of England school, where 'Morning Assembly' was cancelled abruptly only to be followed by the abandoning of the traditional Christmas Nativity in favour of little 'plays' written by the Head Teacher.

There were only 3 muslim Asian kids in the school and their father was a 'Doctor' who was something of a 'dignitary' - he was on the school Board of Governors, on some Police Authority Board, was Chairman of Community Race Relations or suchlike, Leader of the local 'mosque' (actually a converted terrace house) etc. etc. He was very respected and feted in fact - as most 'local dignitaries' are.

What most of the community don't know, is that he is one of the most crooked, cheating bastards walking God's earth, and racially prejudiced against white English people to boot.

I know because I dealt with him in business for a while until I could not stomach his sneering contempt for English people and our way of life, any longer and actually threw him out of my office.

I had been travelling on a mutual business trip in the back seat of his Range Rover and there were 5 other Asian colleagues of his whom I did not know. On a 15 mile journey, every time we passed a white female they started talking among themselves in Urdu and fractured English, about 'English harlots', 'Slags' Sluts' - you name it, and some of the females we passed were just schoolgirls.

I nearly came to blows with 2 of them in the car and demanded they turned the car around telling him he could "Feck" his business, and he did turn it around.

Back home, he followed me into my office and told me that he couldn't understand my reaction because I wasn't an "English bastard" but was Asian like them (because I am mixed race) and it ended up with me physically throwing him out.

This is all true.

The mistake he made was in believing that I was his 'friend' but although I did do business with him and was friendly with him to begin with, I soon grew to dislike him immensely. During that time though, I witnessed enough of his 'dodgy dealings' and total disregard for even his own Muslim community whom he was 'ripping off'. He tried to get me to submit a deliberately inflated quote to the council so he could get a bigger Grant but I refused. He tried to get me to do the same on invoices for the local 'Mosque' so he could recoup his 'outlay' from the Muslim community he 'served' and pocket the - considerable - difference on each invoice. I refused.

Anyway, this was the hypocritical bastard who was (and still is) held in such high regard by our community and its 'Big Wigs', and this is the man whose influence - along with his certain of his Asian cronies - and friendship with the school's Head teacher initiated the said changes to that school's traditions.

It got so bad that when the kids at the school - including mine - were creating gaily decorated hoops to hang from the assembly room ceiling at Christmas, the children were told that they could no longer do Angels, but Stars were OK.

I actually went to see the Head and queried these changes and was told that morning assembly was cancelled because the school did not want the 'non-Christian' children (all 3 of them) to feel 'excluded'. Similarly, he explained that the school was no longer putting on the traditional Christmas Nativity because: it did not want to "offend the parents of the non-Christian children" (all 1 of them - the dad in question) when they came to attend the play. I argued the toss with him but my logic fell on deaf ears.

The situation deteriorated when my son came home with homework on the life of the prophet Muhammed and text books on Islam. I have already stated on here that I have never made any attempt to 'push' my beliefs onto my children, so I asked my little son if he knew who the four evangelists were. He shook his little head.

I went back to see the prick of a head teacher and asked why; in a Church of England School, he was teaching the kids Islam when Christianity wasn't on the curriculum and he gave me a load of B.S. by way of an answer.

I had a choice, remove my kids from one of the (hitherto) highest performing schools in the area, or leave them and accept the situation.

I left them.

This Asian dignitary also owned several 'Care Homes' which were full of old 'white' English people - not a Muslim in sight - and all the staff were the same. Yet Christmas was not allowed to be celebrated in any of his homes even though a lot of the inmates and staff wanted to put Christmas trees up and decorate.

But isn't this the situation now given the topic of this thread?

Having change thrust upon us for no valid reason? Change which is not only offensive to our belief system, but which is yet another example of our civil liberties as English Christians being taken away from us? Changes which are just a thinly cloaked way of eroding our heritage, our traditions, our way of life?

What about our rights?