[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why have you linked this to every other terrorist attack?

Are you really that desperate to link this to IS, with no other evidence than your rigid construct of who has recently done so :/

No, i am just reminding the thread of recent terror activity in europe

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Wait so he might not have links to IS?!?! Muslims aren't to blame?! I wonder if this is still terrorism then? or is it terrorism cause he's a brown person and only brown people can be terrorists? Which is the main factor Muslim or brown idk?!?! Cause Jo Cox's white far right killer wasn't a terrorist even though he was a terrorist but it was just mental illness so what's it to be here?!?!?!

I don't know whether to laugh, cry, fume, be confused or what at the anti-multiculturalism sentiments anymore. The worst thing is you are playing right into the hands of Islamic fundamentalists. Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want? They don't want normal, civilised, law-abiding Muslims to be accepted by you and me. They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us. The entire point of terrorism is to strike fear into people and make them question the society they live in and the people around them. They want you to assume that all Muslims are to blame for this and they must all be sent home immediately because these people don't want them to be a part of Westernised culture at all!

You are giving them exactly what they want. Make people feel isolated, marginalised, criticised and then give them an outlet from which to vent their festering hatred. This is precisely how people are radicalised. We are already part of the problem and now lots seem to want to exacerbate said problem by giving them exactly the response that they want.

By letting them win, you are making the problem worse.

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?


Where did you read this Jack?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No, i am just reminding the thread of recent terror activity in europe

As if anyone needs reminding... But why, what was the logic behind it?

Genuinely interested in the reasoning behind the intrinsic link you have seemingly made here.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No, i am just reminding the thread of recent terror activity in europe

Perhaps someone on one of the other threads should post a list of unarmed black people shot by cops in the US over the last 2 years.

What's that? That wouldn't be legitimate? It would be meaningless without context, you say? It would be totally different? Hmmmmm.


Also not sure what you're trying to prove by pointing out that there has been an increase in terror activity. Like it somehow proves your point? It would be equally valid (and in my opinion, far more accurate) to point out that the increase in home grown Lone Wolf terrorism goes hand in hand with the increase in xenophobic cultural rejection. You know. That "multiculturalism has failed" soundbite that keeps bleating on repeat?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?


Where did you read this Jack?

It's factual counter terrorism advise, it's part of the PREVENT strategy that not many people appear to have taken on board.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's factual counter terrorism advise, it's part of the PREVENT strategy that not many people appear to have taken on board.

Is it this one?

Prevent strategy 'could end up promoting extremism'

he Prevent programme was introduced as part of the government’s post-September 11 counter-terrorism strategy, aimed at stopping people becoming terrorists. However, the strategy remains deeply controversial.

Some critics believe Prevent is counter-productive and discriminates against Muslims, while others have said there is no clear way to measure its effectiveness.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ism-maina-kiai

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps someone on one of the other threads should post a list of unarmed black people shot by cops in the US over the last 2 years.

What's that? That wouldn't be legitimate? It would be meaningless without context, you say? It would be totally different? Hmmmmm.


Also not sure what you're trying to prove by pointing out that there has been an increase in terror activity. Like it somehow proves your point? It would be equally valid (and in my opinion, far more accurate) to point out that the increase in home grown Lone Wolf terrorism goes hand in hand with the increase in xenophobic cultural rejection. You know. That "multiculturalism has failed" soundbite that keeps bleating on repeat?

Maybe 'Multiculturalism has failed' is the new mantra similar to 'let's take back control' that Mr McKenna advocated as a tool of social control during the referendum?...

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?


Where did you read this Jack?

Specifically, the grey zone refers to the sphere of coexistence where Muslim and non-Muslim might live together. That’s anathema to the frightened young men of Isis, who yearn for a world divided on binary lines, with room for only two categories – them and the infidel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-zone-jihadism

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...errorists-isis

IN A STATEMENT PUBLISHED in its online magazine, Dabiq, this February, the militant group the Islamic State warned that “Muslims in the West will soon find themselves between one of two choices.” ...

While ISIS initially endorsed the killings on purely religious grounds, calling the murdered cartoonists blasphemers, in Dabiq the group offered another, more chilling rationale for its support.

The attack had “further [brought] division to the world,” the group said, boasting that it had polarized society and “eliminated the grayzone,” representing coexistence between religious groups. As a result, it said, Muslims living in the West would soon no longer be welcome in their own societies. Treated with increasing suspicion, distrust and hostility by their fellow citizens as a result of the deadly shooting, Western Muslims would soon be forced to “either apostatize … or they [migrate] to the Islamic State, and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens,” the group stated, while threatening of more attacks to come.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/...-and-the-west/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Is it this one?

Prevent strategy 'could end up promoting extremism'

he Prevent programme was introduced as part of the government’s post-September 11 counter-terrorism strategy, aimed at stopping people becoming terrorists. However, the strategy remains deeply controversial.

Some critics believe Prevent is counter-productive and discriminates against Muslims, while others have said there is no clear way to measure its effectiveness.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ism-maina-kiai

That may have been sold as justification for scaling back funding perhaps, but what was the alternative? Oh, that's right there wasn't one apart from the relentless media demonisation.

Anyhoo have a flick through yourself.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...egy-review.pdf

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jack_

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-zone-jihadism

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...errorists-isis



https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/...-and-the-west/

Thankyou

But what has this got to do with the failure of multiculturalism?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Thankyou

But what has this got to do with the failure of multiculturalism?

There is no 'failure of multiculturalism'. You are missing the point. IS want multiculturalism to fail, it is written for you in plain sight right there.

By pandering to their wishes, you are exacerbating the problem.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not realise that division and segregation is exactly what they want?
They want them to be marginalised, chastised. They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.They want them to feel hated. They want them to hate us.


Have ISIS released this as a statement that I missed or have they brought out a manifesto?

I'm starting to think that you legitimately might just be taking the **** now LT. Forget ISIS, you're claiming that you don't know about or understand one of the most very basic aims of terrorism in all forms.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jack_

There is no 'failure of multiculturalism'. You are missing the point. IS want multiculturalism to fail, it is written for you in plain sight right there.

By pandering to their wishes, you are exacerbating the problem.

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has identified segregation and separatism as key issues behind the threat of Islamic extremism and called for a "shared national identity" to replace "the doctrine of state multiculturalism".

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference on 5 February, Cameron said that Western countries needed to confront extremism rather than pursue a "hands-off tolerance".

The UK prime minister said "the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation and failed to supply "a vision of society" to which people want to belong.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...sm-has-failed/

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm starting to think that you legitimately might just be taking the **** now LT. Forget ISIS, you're claiming that you don't know about or understand one of the most very basic aims of terrorism in all forms.

Incorrect TS I am aware of the claims made as to the strategy of IS (and I dont think they really have one tbh) but this stuff gets trotted out as fact a lot but it reads like a James BOnd movie script and I tend to hear it from "security experts" on the tv and i have no idea why they are experts and where they get this stuff. But Jack answered my question well with an IS quote so you dont need to worry. Thankyou Jack.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has identified segregation and separatism as key issues behind the threat of Islamic extremism and called for a "shared national identity" to replace "the doctrine of state multiculturalism".

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference on 5 February, Cameron said that Western countries needed to confront extremism rather than pursue a "hands-off tolerance".

The UK prime minister said "the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation and failed to supply "a vision of society" to which people want to belong.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...sm-has-failed/

And ghettoisation and failure to integrate are fuelled by rejection. Exactly the sort of rejection that you are promoting by claiming that every terrorist incident is the fault of "failed multiculturalism".

You seem now to be suggesting that when people say "multiculturalism has failed!" they are saying that it has a chance of succeeding if more carefully and slowly implemented. THAT would be a perfectly level-headed and logical standpoint.

However, I see VERY LITTLE of that sentiment when I see people making these claims about failing multiculturalism. What they are saying is "No it never worked and can never work, get them all out, send them all home, don't let any more in". If that's not the intended message then the true message is being completely lost somewhere in the ham-fisted delivery... and as a result, it IS fuelling division, alienation, and from that, fuelling terrorism.

If what you mean is "Multiculturalism isn't being done properly" then take the time to say so and explain that instead of barking "FAILED!!!". It's lazy and it adds to the problem, rather than helping to solve it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has identified segregation and separatism as key issues behind the threat of Islamic extremism and called for a "shared national identity" to replace "the doctrine of state multiculturalism".

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference on 5 February, Cameron said that Western countries needed to confront extremism rather than pursue a "hands-off tolerance".

The UK prime minister said "the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation and failed to supply "a vision of society" to which people want to belong.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...sm-has-failed/

Oh is that why he referred to refugees as a 'swarm'? and sat back whilst the media made folk devils of the entire Muslim population?.... pfffft!

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Youtube video

Poor Owen first to comment after the poll result announced (he was right about vile "faith" schools tho)

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

LT you live in Scotland so I don't think you're well enough informed to tell people what east London and Birmingham are like.

[arista]

As I stated at AM time on this thread
This Evil Terrorist used facebook
to get kids to go to that McD,
So he Could kill them


Isis - has nothing to do with it

But he was Still a Terrorist loner
and Bought His Gun from Albanians
in Germany.

Out there Guns are Easy to buy

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Greg!

LT you live in Scotland so I don't think you're well enough informed to tell people what east London and Birmingham are like.

I lived 15 years in London and visited the East End ever other Saturday near as dammit so maybe apart from say Livia on Tibb I think I know that area pretty well

You need to know yourself gurl

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I lived 15 years in London and visited the East End ever other Saturday near as dammit so maybe apart from say Livia on Tibb I think I know that area pretty well

You need to know yourself gurl

You Tell Him LT


Cheeky youngster on this Great Forum

[arista]

The last bullet this Punk Fired
was in his own Head.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I lived 15 years in London and visited the East End ever other Saturday near as dammit so maybe apart from say Livia on Tibb I think I know that area pretty well

You need to know yourself gurl

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

[arista]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

Your in Scotland are you not?

Are you not Z?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

Well lucky that i did not claim to be an expert just someone who knows the area and saw it change dramatically in the short space of 15 years

luckily a BBC documentary was recently made about this

you can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07czw5k

The area has had an influx of 70,000 immigrants in the past 15 years. 73 per cent of the local population is now made up of ethnic minorities and Black British.