[jaxie]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...zulu-performer

I thought this was an interesting story. There is an argument in Lewes as to whether an old tradition of locals dressing up as Zulu's is offensive. A Zulu performer says it's not offensive. He make a good a point when he says it's nice that people want to be like him rather than saying it's wrong to be like him. Is that the way the dressing up should be viewed or should we view it that they are mocking him?

I wonder if what they are commemorating is more offensive than the costumes, a war the Zulus lost, then again, are we getting too sensitive about past events and should we simply take them for what they are something that once happened? Interesting one to think about.

What do you think?

[Crimson Dynamo]

[smudgie]

I can't see how dressing up as a Zulu gives a negative stereotype.
The Zulu warrior dance is amazing to see, and if people have been imitating it for many years then I see it as more positive than negative.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Im going out trick or treating dressed as a black Kevin Spacey

[Oliver_W]

People should dress how they like for Halloween, people who whinge about it whinge about everything.

[Vicky.]

People do tend to get up in arms about a lot of stuff.

I think the issue here is 'blackface', which does offend a lot of people, and is fairly well known that it offends a lot of people.

[Firewire]

Yes it’s racist

[user104658]

Yes, it is, and not because "it's a white person dressing as a black person" but because of the specifics of the Anglo-Zulu war, and British colonialism in Africa in general. In this case, very much worth looking into the actual specifics before deciding that "lol no dressing up isnt racist lol."

[Shaun]

Just a tad, yes.

[Brother Leon]

Dressing as one is fine. Blackface isn't. /Thread

[Josy]

Maybe a bit of a bias view this but no I don't think its racist at all....every year for Christmas and Galaday events in our village my great granda, then my granda, after him my uncle and lastly my cousin were famous for being the village Zulu and doing the dance etc, everyone loved and expected it as part of tradition and there was no racist undertones about it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Josy

Maybe a bit of a bias view this but no I don't think its racist at all....every year for Christmas and Galaday events in our village my great granda, then my granda, after him my uncle and lastly my cousin were famous for being the village Zulu and doing the dance etc, everyone loved and expected it as part of tradition and there was no racist undertones about it.

If something isn't done in a malicious way then how can it be racist, my boys take off my Irish accent all the time, should they be banned ...

waits for someone to come along and call Josy's relatives racist

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I can't see how dressing up as a Zulu gives a negative stereotype.
The Zulu warrior dance is amazing to see, and if people have been imitating it for many years then I see it as more positive than negative.

I agree the Zulu dance is amazing. I love the Zulu parade at the London festival. I know they have a rule in Louisianna; if you are going to join the Zulu parade during mardi gras, you have to blacken your face regardless of you being black or white. The thing is though, the Zulu dance and Zulu parades are all about celebrating the black man's heritage and you don't have to be black to do that. If you want to join in the celebrations, 'laissez les bons temps rouler.'

The thing is, this isn't a festival and there is no Zulu parade. When these random people blacken-up as Zulus for Halloween, are they going to dress like Zulu kings and queens or are they going to try and look like savages? Are they blackening their faces and dressing up with the intent of frightening people? I'm against that because that is not how any of us, including black people, should be representing the Zulu race.

People who blackface at Xmas don't do so to represent Zulu's. Its an ancient tradition of Zwarte Piet who was a companion of St Nicholas.

[Withano]

I would say racism needs an intention. Some people just have stupid Halloween ideas. That doesn't make them racist. It makes them thick.

[Withano]

Then again that's more about them as a person. I suppose the concept of the costume is quite racist yh.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I agree the Zulu dance is amazing. I love the Zulu parade at the London festival. I know they have a rule in Louisianna; if you are going to join the Zulu parade during mardi gras, you have to blacken your face regardless of you being black or white. The thing is though, the Zulu dance and Zulu parades are all about celebrating the black man's heritage and you don't have to be black to do that. If you want to join in the celebrations, 'laissez les bons temps rouler.'

The thing is, this isn't a festival and there is no Zulu parade. When these random people blacken-up as Zulus for Halloween, are they going to dress like Zulu kings and queens or are they going to try and look like savages? Are they blackening their faces and dressing up with the intent of frightening people? I'm against that because that is not how any of us, including black people, should be representing the Zulu race.

People who blackface at Xmas don't do so to represent Zulu's. Its an ancient tradition of Zwarte Piet who was a companion of St Nicholas.

It is a bonfire parade, it's not random people, they are part of a historical group, one of 7 different ones that take part.
They have been dressing as Zulu warriors since before the Second World War for this parade.
The people on parade have nothing to do with Zwarte Piet, it's a Dutch tradition and had nothing to do with being a Zulu warrior.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I agree the Zulu dance is amazing. I love the Zulu parade at the London festival. I know they have a rule in Louisianna; if you are going to join the Zulu parade during mardi gras, you have to blacken your face regardless of you being black or white. The thing is though, the Zulu dance and Zulu parades are all about celebrating the black man's heritage and you don't have to be black to do that. If you want to join in the celebrations, 'laissez les bons temps rouler.'

The thing is, this isn't a festival and there is no Zulu parade. When these random people blacken-up as Zulus for Halloween, are they going to dress like Zulu kings and queens or are they going to try and look like savages? Are they blackening their faces and dressing up with the intent of frightening people? I'm against that because that is not how any of us, including black people, should be representing the Zulu race.

People who blackface at Xmas don't do so to represent Zulu's. Its an ancient tradition of Zwarte Piet who was a companion of St Nicholas.

If you read the article the event is spoken of from the point of view of the leader of the Zulu dancers employed to perform there who doesn't find it racist. So there genuine Zulu dancers present as well. It's not just people dressing up for Halloween.

[DemolitionRed]

I admit to not reading the article but if that's the case, what's the problem?!?

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]



If something isn't done in a malicious way then how can it be racist, my boys take off my Irish accent all the time, should they be banned ...

waits for someone to come along and call Josy's relatives racist

I've never understood this line of defense. Things don't have to be malicious to be racist and propagating dated stereotypes. And an accent isn't a crude costume of someone's skin colour.

[Alf]

What isn't?

Youtube video

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I've never understood this line of defense. Things don't have to be malicious to be racist and propagating dated stereotypes. And an accent isn't a crude costume of someone's skin colour.

an accent is just as much a part of someone's culture as is skin colour imo. I think it is all about intent, for instance a lot of the older generation still use the word "coloured", many don't use it as a racial slur they use it because it was acceptable back in the day and they are none the wiser that it is no longer unacceptable, are they being racist, or have they just not moved with the times?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

an accent is just as much a part of someone's culture as is skin colour imo. I think it is all about intent, for instance a lot of the older generation still use the word "coloured", many don't use it as a racial slur they use it because it was acceptable back in the day and they are none the wiser that it is no longer unacceptable.

It demonstrates to me that the younger generation have no better understanding of a different generation than the older generation do and are just as intolerant to different views as those they accuse of intolerance. We have seen such intolerance on here by the bucket-load.

[user104658]

Can anyone who thinks it's fine, without googling, give me a brief rundown of the Anglo-Zulu war and British colonialism in southern Africa? Like do you know anything about it, at all? Can you, in reference to those very relevant events, explain to me why you believe that groups of White European British people dressing up as Zulu warriors to prance around in costumes might not be seen as racially insensitive by some people?

Or is this just the usual "I know nothing about it but no of course it's not racist, NOTHING is racist " stuff.

Oh wait I forgot; a couple of "real life" Zulu descendants who are involved in the show think it's OK so it must be OK.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Can anyone who thinks it's fine, without googling, give me a brief rundown of the Anglo-Zulu war and British colonialism in southern Africa? Like do you know anything about it, at all? Can you, in reference to those very relevant events, explain to me why you believe that groups of White European British people dressing up as Zulu warriors to prance around in costumes might not be seen as racially insensitive by some people?

Or is this just the usual "I know nothing about it but no of course it's not racist, NOTHING is racist " stuff.

Oh wait I forgot; a couple of "real life" Zulu descendants who are involved in the show think it's OK so it must be OK.

well by that logic people who "claim" to be offended have no clue why either?

so you have answered your own question and ended the thread

Bingo

[Alf]

Some people are just trying to have a bit of fun by dressing up in fancy dress once a year. And some people are trying to stop the fun.

You can see who the trouble causers are.