[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

Corbyn does concern me with how extremely left he is if you want my honest opinion, but at this point I don't think the country and the people within the country can take anymore of the Tories austerity plans or privatisation of public services for much longer. Yes they've got money back but look at how they're doing it, and also do you think that the people are benefiting from these schemes? Are we actually living our lives? Or are we slowly becoming more dependent on stuff like Jobseeker's and loans just to get by? As I've already said I understand the fears that alot of people have about Jeremy Corbyn, but personally I don't think that any of us can handle the Tories schemes for much longer, I know that this will sound silly but it's like watching a Movie villain ruling the real life situations of the UK and it's sickening to me.

I also don't like the 1984 element of Theresa May and the rest of the Tories wanting to invade people's privacy on their Phones and Computers, that to me is just disgraceful and a slippery slope. And again is something I'd moan about alot more but it's nothing to do with the discussion on this thread.

[user104658]

This is what worries me as well Mock; that the Tories have everyone whooping about saving money so much that there seems to be some sort of idea that "permanent austerity" would be a good thing. How will the country grow? How will it modernise? Even if you do believe in austerity, it is supposed to be a TEMPORARY measure and at some point there MUST be a return to investment in our infrastructure, education, and general wellbeing. If there isn't, then in a few short decades we will simply be left behind by the rest of the modern world. Towns will continue to degrade (and they are already dated and embarrassing), roads, other services will all stagnate... I don't understand why any "proud" citizen of a country would celebrate that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is what worries me as well Mock; that the Tories have everyone whooping about saving money so much that there seems to be some sort of idea that "permanent austerity" would be a good thing. How will the country grow? How will it modernise? Even if you do believe in austerity, it is supposed to be a TEMPORARY measure and at some point there MUST be a return to investment in our infrastructure, education, and general wellbeing. If there isn't, then in a few short decades we will simply be left behind by the rest of the modern world. Towns will continue to degrade (and they are already dated and embarrassing), roads, other services will all stagnate... I don't understand why any "proud" citizen of a country would celebrate that?

They have now created/bolstered the "we are good with the economy/labour get us into debt" thing that English voters love to vote on

wait till the next election to witness this in action

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

They have now created/bolstered the "we are good with the economy/labour get us into debt" thing that English voters love to vote on

wait till the next election to witness this in action

Public sector debt wasn't caused by Brown over spending It was caused by the global banking crisis.
Blair and Brown were running the country and allowing banks to dominate the economy the same way Major did and the same way Cameron and May are still doing.

Your hubristic comments only show how little you understand about how the country is still being run.

Keep enjoying the 'big lie'

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

You have no reason to say that whatsoever, it's just a nonsense thing to say because it could never happen. it wouldn't even get enough backing to be brought as a question for the house of commons...

If you thought about it in a realistic fashion instead of the knee jerk 'i hate corbyn' goto reaction you'd realise this.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

You mean like the right we had a say on regarding austerity or the right we had a say on regarding the selling off of the NHS?

A democracy is supposed to represent its people and not divide those people down the middle. Anyone who pays any attention to politics can see that the Tory party continually and surreptitiously try to fragment and even disenfranchise democracy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes and oh wait you see through it all?

the lizard people and the glitterati and the masons

sure jan

I do too, many do... why can't you?

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You mean like the right we had a say on regarding austerity or the right we had a say on regarding the selling off of the NHS?

A democracy is supposed to represent its people and not divide those people down the middle. Anyone who pays any attention to politics can see that the Tory party continually and surreptitiously try to fragment and even disenfranchise democracy.

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

quite right BOTS

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

Ah, that's not strictly true is it? they needed the help of the money tree remember?....

That was one fiddle with democracy, the other is the changes proposed to voter ID.
It is purported to combat 'voter fraud' there was one case of voter fraud at the last election.
This change would see I think it was something like a third of voters without photo ID prevented from exercising their democratic right.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ah, that's not strictly true is it? they needed the help of the money tree remember?....

That was one fiddle with democracy, the other is the changes proposed to voter ID.
It is purported to combat 'voter fraud' there was one case of voter fraud at the last election.
This change would see I think it was something like a third of voters without photo ID prevented from exercising their democratic right.

And if that's not undemocratic I don't know what is!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

do you have a date that was specified for each of these?

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have no reason to say that whatsoever, it's just a nonsense thing to say because it could never happen. it wouldn't even get enough backing to be brought as a question for the house of commons...

If you thought about it in a realistic fashion instead of the knee jerk 'i hate corbyn' goto reaction you'd realise this.

I have every reason. It isn't just about nuclear weapons but his views on all sorts of issues that could put our security at risk. He is not the pure and honest old man you think he is despite your repeated attempts to convince us all he is.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

do you have a date that was specified for each of these?

Good point. The whole lot should have apparently been handed over within weeks.

[jet]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

Absolutely...and if Labour get into power they will f it all up again, and then the Cons will be voted in to sort it all out once again...and be blasted for their efforts.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

No, especially Blair and Brown but that doesn't excuse the present government.

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

How is the economy making progress? And how will having a surplus help our economy? Having a surplus will see more and more big industries closing because you can't have QE when you've reached full capacity. If you think the government is going to start spending, think again. The government had every ability to spend but chose to keep taking.

and of course, it depends on your perspective. If you were a disabled person who'd had your services removed or librarian who had lost every library within driving distance. If you'd just lost your job because you were employed at Northamptonshire county council; a fireman, police officer or soldier who was now surplus to requirement. If you were on a salary that hadn't kept up with inflation or if you had to work three jobs on a zero hour contract for a minimum wage and still not afford your London rent. If you were homeless or unemployed but desperately trying to find salaried job you wouldn't agree to any progress being made.

The cost of austerity measures has done untold damage to peoples lives and equal damage to our economy. Unnecessary Austerity measures have created a small island with growing poverty... Just because you're okay doesn't mean its not happened/happening.

The post crisis recession still continues and its not going to improve anytime soon.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

Absolutely...and if Labour get into power they will f it all up again, and then the Cons will be voted in to sort it all out once again...and be blasted for their efforts.

Ok well fcuk Labour but lets stop this government from robbing us. I don't care who's in power providing they can pull us away from what we presently have.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is what worries me as well Mock; that the Tories have everyone whooping about saving money so much that there seems to be some sort of idea that "permanent austerity" would be a good thing. How will the country grow? How will it modernise? Even if you do believe in austerity, it is supposed to be a TEMPORARY measure and at some point there MUST be a return to investment in our infrastructure, education, and general wellbeing. If there isn't, then in a few short decades we will simply be left behind by the rest of the modern world. Towns will continue to degrade (and they are already dated and embarrassing), roads, other services will all stagnate... I don't understand why any "proud" citizen of a country would celebrate that?

Scary post because every word is spot on.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

It was, do your own research into 2008... It was a worldwide recession your reluctance to acknowledge that smacks of ignorance.

The conservatives have not concentrated on the economy there are 101 things they could have done to improve the economy rather than slice the legs from the support structures of those in need. It was not Labours mismanagement that has led to 10yrs of austerity. We are in the black but guess what Hammond says austerity is to continue....why? Beecause not enough undesirables are dead yet! Austerity is killing people, that is the only fact here.

Everything we are going through now relates directly to tory mismanagement, ANYTHING name it and I'll tel you how... from privatisations to outsourcing to cuts to underfunding to quangos to deregulations to brexit.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Absolutely...and if Labour get into power they will f it all up again, and then the Cons will be voted in to sort it all out once again...and be blasted for their efforts.

How.... Literally how could they eff it all up any more than it is?

What is 'the efforts'? I hear 'oh what do you want the 70s back?' YES! I do, the 70s were ace people had jobs, housing and a decent standard of living the country made money from taxation as well as nationalised services... now we have shareholders and 0hr contracts! We have been bent over and shafted!

(sorry for the language I work in a gatehouse)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It was, do your own research into 2008... It was a worldwide recession your reluctance to acknowledge that smacks of ignorance.

The conservatives have not concentrated on the economy there are 101 things they could have done to improve the economy rather than slice the legs from the support structures of those in need. It was not Labours mismanagement that has led to 10yrs of austerity. We are in the black but guess what Hammond says austerity is to continue....why? Beecause not enough undesirables are dead yet! Austerity is killing people, that is the only fact here.

Everything we are going through now relates directly to tory mismanagement, ANYTHING name it and I'll tel you how... from privatisations to outsourcing to cuts to underfunding to quangos to deregulations to brexit.

What are "we going through now"?

(and let me remind you Brexit was the decision of the voting public)

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What are "we going through now"?

(and let me remind you Brexit was the decision of the voting public)

We are going through a socio economic blender, do some research LT.

The result was (as far as we know) the idea of just over half of the voters, the decision to hold the referendum was not.

My theory is it was a foregone conclusion to be honest, I don't think for on minute the govt would have risked this if it wasn't what they ultimately wanted, even the people who feigned remain in the tory camps were bluffing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We are going through a socio economic blender, do some research LT.

The result was (as far as we know) the idea of just over half of the voters, the decision to hold the referendum was not.

My theory is it was a foregone conclusion to be honest, I don't think for on minute the govt would have risked this if it wasn't what they ultimately wanted, even the people who feigned remain in the tory camps were bluffing.

Just over half is more than just under. The overs have it - that is what a public vote is all about. Or do you want to change the rules this time because it didn’t go your way.

I can only imagine your words if it had been the other way round and the leavers were throwing such a tantrum.