[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've changed my mind, let's brand them and see how long it takes for people to have hysterics about their rights. Because the fact that little girls under 15 STILL undergo female circumcision in the UK and no one seems to be doing anything about it is a national disgrace. Tattoo? Definitely not. Have your clitoris cut off and your vagina sewn up, without anaesthetic and with unsterilized cutting tools... seemingly acceptable. FGM has been illegal since 2003 since when 170,000 female have gone through the procedure in the UK 2003 with no convictions at all.

The genital mutilation of both sexes is a terrible thing. No one should defend the people doing it and they should be prosecuted and hit with harsh punishments if caught, just like any other invasive crime; but even then they still have certain rights, and those rights should still be adhered to.

Male circumcision isn't anywhere near as barbaric as it's female version, but cutting a babies penis should also be illegal, and definitely not provided on the NHS.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The genital mutilation of both sexes is a terrible thing. No one should defend the people doing it and they should be prosecuted and hit with harsh punishments if caught, just like any other invasive crime; but even then they still have certain rights, and those rights should still be adhered to.

Male circumcision isn't anywhere near as barbaric as it's female version, but cutting a babies penis should also be illegal, and definitely not provided on the NHS.

Male Circumcision is also sometime medically need though

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Male Circumcision is also sometime medically need though

Then that's a different issue altogether and should be provided. A hysterectomy is a woman's choice, but sometimes it's needed for medical reasons so there is a clear and obvious distinction.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Then that's a different issue altogether and should be provided. A hysterectomy is a woman's choice, but sometimes it's needed for medical reasons so there is a clear and obvious distinction.

How many women do you know who've chosen to have a hysterectomy?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Then that's a different issue altogether and should be provided. A hysterectomy is a woman's choice, but sometimes it's needed for medical reasons so there is a clear and obvious distinction.

Who can choose a hysterectomy? My mum had to fight for one even though she had major problems for years.......she would have chosen it but it was only offered once she had suffered loads of other "solutions" and she was seriously anaemic

[Denver]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Then that's a different issue altogether and should be provided. A hysterectomy is a woman's choice, but sometimes it's needed for medical reasons so there is a clear and obvious distinction.

I'm sure the UK has one of the lowest numbers of MC where as America almost everyone has it

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The genital mutilation of both sexes is a terrible thing. No one should defend the people doing it and they should be prosecuted and hit with harsh punishments if caught, just like any other invasive crime; but even then they still have certain rights, and those rights should still be adhered to.

Male circumcision isn't anywhere near as barbaric as it's female version, but cutting a babies penis should also be illegal, and definitely not provided on the NHS.

You cannot equate female circumcision with male circumcision, although men inevitably try to. Circumcision in boys isn't always a religious thing, it's often done for health reasons. Cutting off the clitoris, sewing up the vagina so that the girls have endless and sometimes life-threatening problems with sex and childbirth has no health benefits at all. Male and female circumcision are completely different discussions.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Livia

You cannot equate female circumcision with male circumcision, although men inevitably try to. Circumcision in boys isn't always a religious thing, it's often done for health reasons. Cutting off the clitoris, sewing up the vagina so that the girls have endless and sometimes life-threatening problems with sex and childbirth has no health benefits at all. Male and female circumcision are completely different discussions.

I didn't. I specifically said "Male circumcision isn't anywhere near as barbaric as it's female version". Not sure what health reasons would be prevented by genital mutilation, but if it's needed then by all means they should have it when needed.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I didn't. I specifically said "Male circumcision isn't anywhere near as barbaric as it's female version". Not sure what health reasons would be prevented by genital mutilation, but if it's needed then by all means they should have it when needed.

Its usually like..a really tight painful foreskin.

I do wonder sometimes how many men would chose to have it done as adults, if it hadn't been done to them as kids. I doubt it would be many. I know a lot of men say they are happy with it, but they have known nothing else..and I cannot see men queuing up to have bits of their penis chopped off.

Also now wondering if I should split this discussion off from this thread into its own...but splicing usually goes wrong when I do it

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its usually like..a really tight painful foreskin.

I do wonder sometimes how many men would chose to have it done as adults, if it hadn't been done to them as kids. I doubt it would be many. I know a lot of men say they are happy with it, but they have known nothing else..and I cannot see men queuing up to have bits of their penis chopped off.

Also now wondering if I should split this discussion off from this thread into its own...but splicing usually goes wrong when I do it

If there is a separate thread I suspect we'll end up discussing whether FGM and male circumcision are at all comparable and we'll get further and further away from the crux of the matter. I wonder whether this phenomena has contributed to the shameful lack of conviction.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

If there is a separate thread I suspect we'll end up discussing whether FGM and male circumcision are at all comparable and we'll get further and further away from the crux of the matter. I wonder whether this phenomena has contributed to the shameful lack of conviction.

Well yeah..you are probably right there. I think it might have something to do with it, people see it as 'well its fine when its boys' (which again I should state, I don't think its fine in boys) but its totally different really. A valid comparison would maybe be..actully cutting the whole penis off in boys so they would never have any sexual function.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yeah..you are probably right there. I think it might have something to do with it, people see it as 'well its fine when its boys' (which again I should state, I don't think its fine in boys) but its totally different really. A valid coparison would maybe be..actully cutting the whole penis off in boys so they would never have any sexual function.

Cut off the whole tip, where the sensations are greatest, we don't want them enjoying sex... and sew up the little hole so it's hard to pee. And it still wouldn't be as severe as FGM,

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its usually like..a really tight painful foreskin.

I do wonder sometimes how many men would chose to have it done as adults, if it hadn't been done to them as kids. I doubt it would be many. I know a lot of men say they are happy with it, but they have known nothing else..and I cannot see men queuing up to have bits of their penis chopped off.

Also now wondering if I should split this discussion off from this thread into its own...but splicing usually goes wrong when I do it

I dont mind it turning this way vicky...very interesting opinions...leave as is please.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I didn't. I specifically said "Male circumcision isn't anywhere near as barbaric as it's female version". Not sure what health reasons would be prevented by genital mutilation, but if it's needed then by all means they should have it when needed.

I was talking about FGM. And it wasn't long before someone mentioned male circumcision even thought the two cannot be compared but it's what always happens when FGM is mentioned. Why IS that? And then you compared male circumcision to hysterectomy, imagining that women would choose that. I think you've got a little off-course.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was talking about FGM. And it wasn't long before someone mentioned male circumcision even thought the two cannot be compared but it's what always happens when FGM is mentioned. Why IS that? And then you compared male circumcision to hysterectomy, imagining that women would choose that. I think you've got a little off-course.

You went off topic to make a point about FGM in a thread that had nothing to do with FGM, but yeah, I went a little off course.

I was wrong about the hysterectomy thing, but let me turn it around and use men and vasectomy instead. The principal is the same, but I was incorrect on my initial assertion.

Have your thread back, I'm out.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

You went off topic to make a point about FGM in a thread that had nothing to do with FGM, but yeah, I went a little off course.

I was wrong about the hysterectomy thing, but let me turn it around and use men and vasectomy instead. The principal is the same, but I was incorrect on my initial assertion.

Have your thread back, I'm out.

You can make all the analogies you like, it doesn't alter the fact that FGM and male circumcision are not the same thing. You didn't even know male circumcision is mostly done for hygiene and medical reasons! Maybe it's best you're out.