[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Well the supposed court documents on show are from b4 trumps zero tolerence stance was introduced....

I really have no idea what you're trying to say, or what you're even trying to defend anymore. There are a wide number of complaints in there encompassing a wider period of time than first thought. Does that make the complaint less legitimate?

Yesterday you were saying its been going on for years and democrats share the blame, today you're saying that the complaints aren't recent enough for you. I have no idea what events would have had to have taken place in order for you to say "y'know what, that's out of order".

You've gone through the full range of BS in this thread; from conspiracy theories straight from infowars, to refusing to acknowledge the truth to where we are now.

When you find yourself having to obfuscate or flat out ignore reality, then maybe a bit of introspection is needed on your part. I know it's difficult when you want to "own the libs", but c'mon dude.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I really have no idea what you're trying to say, or what you're even trying to defend anymore. There are a wide number of complaints in there encompassing a wider period of time than first thought. Does that make the complaint less legitimate?

Yesterday you were saying its been going on for years and democrats share the blame, today you're saying that the complaints aren't recent enough for you. I have no idea what events would have had to have taken place in order for you to say "y'know what, that's out of order".

You've gone through the full range of BS in this thread; from conspiracy theories straight from infowars, to refusing to acknowledge the truth to where we are now.

When you find yourself having to obfuscate or flat out ignore reality, then maybe a bit of introspection is needed on your part. I know it's difficult when you want to "own the libs", but c'mon dude.

You asked if people want to diss trump/ or would use this to do it....im showing you they are by using court documents from before all this to bring more hatred on him because of this.......


But anyway..im done again now....im british not american, but thia is a policy i would agree with if the uk started doing it.

[bots]

Melania Trump wears $39 jacket with 'I REALLY DON'T CARE, DO U?' scrawled across the back as she boards a plane to visit immigrant children being held at the Texas border





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-children.html

-----

Do these people have any brain cells?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Melania Trump wears $39 jacket with 'I REALLY DON'T CARE, DO U?' scrawled across the back as she boards a plane to visit immigrant children being held at the Texas border





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-children.html

-----

Do these people have any brain cells?

I think you will find she was the cataclyst of trumps reversal.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The only thing this is about is criminals being foolish or uncaring enough that they will risk the well being of their or someone elses kids.

You can blame trump all you want...im fed up arguing the toss about it.

I will blame Trump because it's his administration that is responsible for state sponsored child abuse.

Try this thing called empathy, try putting yourself in the shoes of someone so desperate to enter a country that they'd do it illegally. These kinds of people rarely think 'Oh wow, let's go pillage the US' benefits system and it's totally bitchin' insurance based health system that would screw us over for generations just because I can't be bothered to find a job in Mexico'

No, people don't take risks like that unless they are desperate. To blame parents for their children being taken from them and mentally and emotionally abused doesn't fly.

You are either against this abhorrent practice or you are for it, no grey areas, no victim blaming, no blaming a previous administration. It's a black or white issue. You either think this is perfectly acceptable or you don't.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe the parents should think of that before trying to gain illegal entry into another country. Blame everyone else - but not the parents for their own irresponsible actions. It isn't child abuse on behalf of the authorities and the use of such terminology is simply emotive for effect. America has a right to protect its borders as does any other country.

So you're supporting state sponsored child abuse because they are immigrants, okay.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I think you will find she was the cataclyst of trumps reversal.

She's just a puppet that can't stand him tbh and his 'reversal' ain't worth **** by all accounts. It doesn't really change the situation. It's a pointless gesture with no intent behind it.

His executive order won't change anything because it's not intended to, it's just a hollow gesture.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

She's just a puppet that can't stand him tbh and his 'reversal' ain't worth **** by all accounts. It doesn't really change the situation. It's a pointless gesture with no intent behind it.

His executive order won't change anything because it's not intended to, it's just a hollow gesture.

Tbh.....tbh you cant be honest about the fact your trying to prove because you cant honestly see inside her head.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Tbh.....tbh you cant be honest about the fact your trying to prove because you cant honestly see inside her head.

It's as valid a response as saying she was the catalyst in Trump's pretend reversal.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's as valid a response as saying she was the catalyst in Trump's pretend reversal.

And yours was as valid as my references to obama and paedophillia.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

And yours was as valid as my references to obama and paedophillia.

Well no, you were spouting inaccuracies. You believing Melania had anything to do with this pretend reversal is an opinion just like it's my opinion that she's a puppet.

To blame the democrats or a previous administration for the current administration's recent approach to immigration is simply a false narrative.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I remember when some members tht Donald would be gone by March 2017

Lol

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well no, you were spouting inaccuracies. You believing Melania had anything to do with this pretend reversal is an opinion just like it's my opinion that she's a puppet.

To blame the democrats or a previous administration for the current administration's recent approach to immigration is simply a false narrative.

It was reported on itn news that she and his wife were a strong cataclysm...the coat was worn to confirm that.
You're just imagining you can see in melanies head......cant be arsed tonight, sorry.

[Marsh.]

Ending the thread because you've lost a debate.

[montblanc]

screaming not "done"

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Ive been looking all day.

they had footage of kids in cages on bbc news, Parm

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree 100% TS, people are demonised, stereotyped, marginalised,subjugated society is programmed via the media that they are criminals, drains on resources, undesirables.
This makes it easier for them to be mistreated unchallenged by 'society', they are the criminal, poor, workshy, disabled, foreign.

Can anyone hand on heart say they haven't been witness to this...Here in the UK?
Not as yet on the scale the US has it but we're never usually that far behind due to our 'special relationship'.

are you surprised, Kizzy? it's either that or people will start twigging who really is to blame, i.e the establishment and the rich and they sure can't have that

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I remember when some members tht Donald would be gone by March 2017

Lol

Now, LT, don't troll, this subject is emotive as it is, no need to add fuel

[Twosugars]

but honestly, what the actual f*uck with that coat of hers? I mean, you couldn't make this **** up if you tried!

[Maru]

Originally Posted by arista

At this time in USA
Its all about illegal immigrants
have their kids taken away from them,

Trump says criminals are using kids to get into USA,

I amazed Maru does not have a thread on this.


Ref: CNN HD Live
and FoxNewsHD Live (online only for UK , at this time)

Yeah, I kind of needed a break from politics. I haven't been watching and reading as much lately anyway due to work (I have a 2nd job now... ). But it's terrible to hear this is going on, and I would imagine our allies probably are confused how we let this happen (despite Trump)... but I will say my theory...

The policy has been in place since Obama-era, but I would not be surprised if it's gone on even much longer than that (possibly decades). It's very common in the US for beauracracies to turn heads and to "mask" these issues rather than to deal with them the proper way.

Probably, their budget is very limited, hence the ridiculous conditions they are being detained under. Welfare services is very similar in TX. Before my mother got her social worker sorted, she would have to wait 9+ hours just to see someone in a chair with a room of crowded folk (including some illegals).

The authorities (national maybe) running this either don't want to know what is going on, whereas those directly involved may actually compalin, but nothing is done. Probably budgeting does not help, but there is a loophole with regard to criminal charges here. Anyway, we will restrict how much is spent, because these folk are not US citizens... as such, they're not very high on the totem pole for budgeting/representation.

There are unions/organizations that represent the inmates here in TX, and as such, there is a lot more pressure on the upper brass to be more forthright with caring for these individuals and caring for them in custody. However, it's still the same scenario there... the upper brass would rather not want to know how the pie is made so to speak, just that it remains within certain thresholds and that the paperwork lines up. That's how a lot of these things end up "covered up" imo... the lower ranks, the folk directly responsible for caring for these people probably raised the issue multiple times... but usually nothing is done, because nobody further up wants to be held accountable for those conditions should it hit the media and raise questions.

It usually takes a scandal for something like this to actually get addressed. Sad but true, but that is the state of US politics. It is the same in Congress, and it is the same in all our institutions. Only with ample pressure does reform ever occur.

Personally, I'm agitated that Congress won't act and pass a bill dealing with this. Seems irresponsible as it is their job to handle such matters. An executive order can be changed later... but legislature would provide guidance for future laws/reforms to take shape. If there are shortfalls in funding, then those matters should be addressed with legislation citing guidelines that must be followed with these folk who are in our custody.

Right now, the focus is on making this into a political thing. That is wrong and both sides are attempting to milk the issue. It should be about doing what's right, plain and simple, this should be a bipartisan effort once it became known to these folk. Some knew much longer than before Trump was president, that there were serious issues here. However, both sides have their heads up their ***, so I don't think it serves any purpose to point fingers at this point... both are responsible for this having gone on as long as it has.

Nobody is really representing when these people are here. Not even the Democrats. What should happen, imo, is that Mexico should become more involved in the treatment and handling of their citizens in our custody. They are legal citizens of that country, so they should have some interest in their care. They should get involved with the deportation/criminal process as much as possible so that these individuals are cared for properly... they should've been the first to raise an alarm.

If it were a US citizen detained elsewhere in terrible conditions, Trump & co, Congress, etc, would all be raising cane. However, because they are not our citizens, have no affiliations or links to the US (officially), they lack true representation here and that is where the Consulate needs to step up I think. Though hopefully now that this issue has come to the forefront, more will be done on our end to further their care in our custody... especially the children, as emotional support is really key here, having probably gone through enough before even crossing the border. Their parents may make stupid decisions, but I think the right thing would be to step up here and provide services for them while in custody...

Perhaps an educational/child development program can be developed to work with these children and their peers. Something hospitality-focused, so that at least instead of sitting in shared facility full-time, they get a break while their parents handle their case. I don't think that they're "entitled" to these services, but I think it's important that the US send the message that we are compassionate towards the individuals. We do not agree obviously with them coming across legally. However I think if the US were to remain hard and cold towards immigrant populations, it may reform our image and perhaps even people would be more willing to file for asylum the correct way... i.e. nothing personal, but we can't just allow anyone in unconditionally, but we will look after your children properly (and care for their basic needs) while you are in our custody. I think that would be a modern touch to our immigration system... yes we need a wall and to seal our borders, but there should also be understanding that many folk try to come here to find a better life. That was after all the promise of the American dream... their decision to leave their home is not a light one, as I'm sure many people are still emotionally attached to Mexico, their roots.

My school was a vast majority Hispanic (mostly Mexican heritage) and we had those programs, including Spanish-speaking folk who ran the school, mariachi bands, celebrations of their heritage even though it was a US school... it felt appropriate and welcoming to those folk, and a good cultural lesson for myself. So I would like to see that for their children while they are in our custody, that they put in schools that are friendly to them and can accomodate their needs... if even just temporarily (a few weeks) until their case is processed and they are possibly sent back home? I don't know that I agree with putting their parents in jail for simply crossing the border (i.e. rather than violent crimes, etc)... charges yes, but imprisonment... not really, especially if we are just going to send them back.

I think because they are our neighbors (Mexico), we should treat their citizens with hospitality. If anything, to better relations. I think that enforcing our laws doesn't need to come at the expense of that care... if Trump is serious about improving our laws and rebuilding our relations as a strong and robust nation, then he has to consider these small transactional relations as well with foreign citizens, not just overarching laws, that if not are handled with care will cause many unintended side-effects... whether our authorities intend this or not, they have to understand the full impact of laws/procedures that they enact... no different than any other institution. I think that repairing relationships on an individual level with foreign citizens is very important for a country as large and significant as the US, if it hopes to unite even folk in its own population...visitors and foreigners who have negative opinions of our country on the whole, they have a more objective perspective and it does help to inflame domestic relations as well when we damage these relations with foreign countries... I think. Like a look in the mirror...

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

but honestly, what the actual f*uck with that coat of hers? I mean, you couldn't make this **** up if you tried!

I really don't like casual wear that insults other people. It assumes too much what the other person is thinking... especially assuming they might even care, just a little ... but I think in this case, it's probably a message to the media... however, it is too vague even for me, so I think the "message" got lost just like those t-shirts that make people feel bad for just reading their stupid phrases.

Trump has an issue where he says whatever he likes, we know this, except often he is verbally farting into the ether when he does this. So even conservatives have issues trying to understand his core messaging there . So it's hard to assume what his final messaging will be, even for those on his staff, as they usually go with one interpretation, only for Trump to re-engage with a latter message...

His wife is just following with his trend of spiting the media with vague & ominous messaging. Trump loves to stir the pot, and I guess so does his wife now?... I think supporters would probably find it amusing that the press is even over-thinking it. I don't think they take him that seriously at all, his odd quirks and the fact she chose a jacket with a childish phrase on the back...

[Twosugars]

But Maru, it looked tacky, not suitable for a First Lady. And more importantly she was going to visit those refugee kids. Don't they have advisers? That **** goes out to the worldwide audience, not just Trump's enemies and supporters.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

But Maru, it looked tacky, not suitable for a First Lady. And more importantly she was going to visit those refugee kids. Don't they have advisers? That **** goes out to the worldwide audience, not just Trump's enemies and supporters.

If it is anything like his cabinet, then his/their advisers have probably all quit, been rotated out by now... So maybe they found people that have learned from their predecessors just to nod and agree.

It is tacky, but US politics is so obscenely tacky and trollish atm... I personally am tired of reading up on it as it's just gone that far for me. It's only a little bit ridiculous. The whole thing.

[bots]

Hey Maru, nice to see you back

Tell me, how often does the presidents wife go on an official trip wearing a $40 jacket. How often does she have one with a slogan on it? It was intended to send a clear message. How could people possibly say it was a fashion statement i mean ... come on

[Crimson Dynamo]

of course kids were segregated from their parents like this during the last administration

:/

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

but honestly, what the actual f*uck with that coat of hers? I mean, you couldn't make this **** up if you tried!

A message to the media.

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

of course kids were segregated from their parents like this during the last administration

:/

Yes no alarm then.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Alf

A message to the media.

it's not a message to the media, its a message to the world. I mean, wearing a poppy or a ribbon or something sends a clear and unambiguous message. Wearing, "I don't care, do you" also sends a message, and if you don't mean literally what you have written on your coat .... don't wear it.