[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are many reasons that people voted Trump ranging from being core republicans, to completely agreeing with him. However, yes, the reason that ENOUGH people voted for Trump was backlash against a push for too much social change too quickly. People seeing injustices and changes that need to happen but not allowing that change to be gradual; insisting that it must be ALL and NOW.

The push back was inevitable and it's exactly the same push back that allowed Brexit to happen.

And I’m pretty sure that most of those that voted for Brexit would do so again if there were a second vote (which I don’t believe will happen, too contentious) and some more to boot as a protest againt the pathetic attempt to overturn a democratic vote in the first place . Many are fuming about that and rightly so.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Why is this same argument always brought up .
But it's OK for the right wing / right side to belittled & mock the left wing / left side and call them "snowflakes" & "libtards" because that's not childish or disrespectful at all right ??

Only in response to the left wing calling them racists in the first place. If you call people names they will likely retaliate.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Only in response to the left wing calling them racists in the first place. If you call people names they will likely retaliate.

Only if they're also immature. Mature people don't respond to insults and name calling with more insults and name calling... That's playground stuff.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are many reasons that people voted Trump ranging from being core republicans, to completely agreeing with him. However, yes, the reason that ENOUGH people voted for Trump was backlash against a push for too much social change too quickly. People seeing injustices and changes that need to happen but not allowing that change to be gradual; insisting that it must be ALL and NOW.

The push back was inevitable and it's exactly the same push back that allowed Brexit to happen.

The only issue I have with that line of thought, it doesn't get to the specifics of why people vote at all. I can see this reasoning from an oppositional POV... my opinion (i.e. my own), that they are now regretted taking for granted the determination of the American voter, that they should've force fed their policies/rhetoric down people's throats slower?... but that doesn't get to the core of why people vote the way they do. It doesn't get in touch with why voters feel the way they feel... it just again, refers back to Identity Politics 101, that people vote in opposition of things not in support of things (just for an example).

The other side of that coin, if we then see it had been more gradual, does that then validate the toxic rhetoric that people are simply racist for not voting any other way? So does it mean after 2024... if Trump is re-elected for example, does this then serve to reinforce the opposition's rhetoric of the American voter being a sh**stain? How is this healthy for our country? I mean, I get that feeling completely. It is logical to some degree to think this way. I think an individual has a good reason to take that stance if they take it... but isn't it this tendency by each party itself to pigeon hole the voter(s) into specific identity groups, also a factor, in scaring away voters for example.. voter suppression which we saw in the 2016 elections by low turnout. I would argue American politic is pretty much revolving around that... and it's this that is tearaing apart of our dialogue, keeping a healthy discourse from occurring... it's keeping average folk and their voices from being heard, much less acknowledged, not only in the mainstream media but in the discussions between both parties in Congress... there's a reason why they have such a massively low approval rating.

That's why that reasoning is not strong enough for me. I think that there is a lot more going on than just Trump evil, American voters bad... Democrats good, social justice bestest...

I remember the run up to 2016. Many of us just watched TV in disgust because of the ****ty options we had... yes, that's their fault for not choosing better candidates and showing up/registering for primary elections... but also both parties rarely go off-script and it's this tendency to stick to that ridiculous script that is alienating a lot of voices I think.... but it's all we've ever known, and our culture is still mid-shift so to speak, so it's hard to say how that script can be changed to be more inclusive... there can only be one disruptor, but both parties (particularly their base) want to be the disruptor. That's making it very difficult to make sense of the party messages (from the average voter POV) and their vision and way forward for our country... at least Trump, he's quite clear on quite a few things actually.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Only in response to the left wing calling them racists in the first place. If you call people names they will likely retaliate.

I know both sides can be rude to each other .
But majority of insults and mocking is towards liberals / Lett sideers.

When Hilary & Trump election was happening , I saw a lot of sexist vulgar remarks online aimed at democrat voters .

And just because people don't vote for Trump they're made to feel like they're "in the wrong" .
When the Republican side will always have different views , why should the left side be bullied into supporting Trump of all people .

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Only if they're also immature. Mature people don't respond to insults and name calling with more insults and name calling... That's playground stuff.

They do on here. Besides TS you’re hardly the paragon of virtue when it comes to childish behaviour.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I know both sides can be rude to each other .
But majority of insults and mocking is towards liberals / Lett sideers.

When Hilary & Trump election was happening , I saw a lot of sexist vulgar remarks online aimed at democrat voters .

And just because people don't vote for Trump they're made to feel like they're "in the wrong" .
When the Republican side will always have different views , why should the left side be bullied into supporting Trump of all people .

I’m sorry Goldheart but certain lefties started it ages ago with their accusations calling anyone who dared disagree with them on mass immigration as racist etc. And the self-same people are still at it. So if wagging fingers - please direct in all directions for consistency.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

They do on here. Besides TS you’re hardly the paragon of virtue when it comes to childish behaviour.

Brillo, rise up above this please... stop with the personal attacks. It's made this section quite intolerable. Yes, you're not the only one, absolutely... but please don't forget the rest of us do follow the rules.. I'd personally rather not see every thread go off-topic into the tit-for-tat discussions every time there's some personal issue... that's something that people can (and should) work out for themselves or through PM.

Edit: And also, please no one follow this up with clap icons or any other related/unrelated commentary... it's not needed.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I’m sorry Goldheart but certain lefties started it ages ago with their accusations calling anyone who dared disagree with them on mass immigration as racist etc. And the self-same people are still at it. So if wagging fingers - please direct in all directions for consistency.

Not all left siders behave that way , and I don't appreciate people tarring the crazy feminists and the argumentative ones with the same brush as your normal standard democrat supporter .

There's some very abusive Trump supporters , where they don't listen and you might as well be talk to a brick wall . they act brainless .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Only in response to the left wing calling them racists in the first place. If you call people names they will likely retaliate.

A racist is a thing.... A snowflake is not a thing.

You can't invent words to suggest there is an issue with an ideology.... THAT is silly and childish, making up imaginary words because you dislike what someone is saying to you :/

But racist words and deeds are clearly defined, if you hold a racist ideology and someone calls you a racist you can't counter with an invention.... :/

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A racist is a thing.... A snowflake is not a thing.

You can't invent words to suggest there is an issue with an ideology.... THAT is silly and childish, making up imaginary words because you dislike what someone is saying to you :/

But racist words and deeds are clearly defined, if you hold a racist ideology and someone calls you a racist you can't counter with an invention.... :/

A snowflake is as much a thing as Islamophobia - a made up word you are quite familiar with I believe. Take that as you will.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

They do on here. Besides TS you’re hardly the paragon of virtue when it comes to childish behaviour.

They don't... And of all the things I've ever claimed to be, "consistently mature" is certainly not one . I mean I can be but it's like... 20% of the time. Being very generous.

The few mature members on here never use any of this language. E.g. Members like Ammi, AnnieK, Ashley...

Basically all female members with names beginning with A. Well... Err... Most. ...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Only in response to the left wing calling them racists in the first place. If you call people names they will likely retaliate.

..yeah people will retaliate../get defensive etc, Brillo...I do agree with you there...labelling serves no positive purpose at all in terms of discussions and debates etc...it completely distracts from the topic being discussed...but people also believe what they believe because of the people they are and their life experiences etc...we are what we are, we believe what we believe because there are reasons for that, through our lives that ‘create us’ in our belief and value structures..no one created Trump, I mean no specifics like left or right...he was the creation of so many things present in the world right now...and things specifically in the USA as those were the only people who were called to vote their President choice...nothing left or right in this country or any other country had any bearing at all...we didn’t get a vote on the creation of Trump...to say a political leaning created...is a bit like saying...(..and I know we’re not talking anything like murderers here....it’s just the only analogy that came to mind..)...but it’s a bit like a murderer saying...you made me murder you, you pushed me...you made me react, you labelled me with things, it’s your fault that you’re dead right now..)...it just doesn’t make sense in anything that dismisses someone from their own behaviours, beliefs and their own actions...those things that are criticised with Trump...and those things that make him a little scary as president to some people...political leanings and beliefs in the USA may have had some bearing..?...but they didn’t create him...he is what he is all by himself...he believes what he believes in full self responsibility ...for some that might be a great thing and something they support as it may align with their own belief system more...but for some others, his actions and his beliefs go against to and opposed to their values and beliefs in life...and that’s just the way it is...people are what they are, believe in what they believe in, feel strongly about what they believe in and etc, etc...and they take or should take full responsibility for those things...a strong belief in something../...anything...can not be shaken or be ‘created’ by a few snowflakes being thrown into the air...a strong belief system is always steady and firm and justifiable in its own right based on life experiences and thought processes etc...something as flimsy as a snowflake will have no effect on it at all, in causing anyone to rethink their beliefs...and no ‘snowflakery’ will ever create a Trump, Trump is Trump because he’s Trump, the person he is...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

A snowflake is as much a thing as Islamophobia - a made up word you are quite familiar with I believe. Take that as you will.

And yet you will defend to the death the reality and existence of terms like snowflake, PC and SJW only you can't when asked define those terms, they are too vague, too broad.
Yet everyone knows what an Islamophobe is, it's someone with a irrational or biased view of Muslims.

If you are using and accepting of made up terms used as a descriptor for a person or group with a certain standpoint then why is this one any different?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And yet you will defend to the death the reality and existence of terms like snowflake, PC and SJW only you can't when asked define those terms, they are too vague, too broad.
Yet everyone knows what an Islamophobe is, it's someone with a irrational or biased view of Muslims.

If you are using and accepting of made up terms used as a descriptor for a person or group with a certain standpoint then why is this one any different?

Kizzy I don’t defend them - I use them in response to the regular name calling from some directed at those right of centre ie bigot, racist etc. And doing so has demonstrated to me and no doubt many others that those initiating that type of behaviour don’t like a dose of their own medicine as I suspected. It really is as simple as that.

If people want actual debate rather than to shut down opposing views - don’t resort to that or others will do the same and discussion remains stagnant. Objecting to others responding to like with like is conveniently one-sided don’t you think.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's a problem with the extremes of both sides. You can't make out that it's a left only problem when on this forum alone (in this thread even) you've got examples of the same behaviour from people of the right.

It's a pissing contest that both sides are guilty of.

This really.

It's like a car crash Reality show from both extremes of the spectrum.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Kizzy I don’t defend them - I use them in response to the regular name calling from some directed at those right of centre ie bigot, racist etc. And doing so has demonstrated to me and no doubt many others that those initiating that type of behaviour don’t like a dose of their own medicine as I suspected. It really is as simple as that.

If people want actual debate rather than to shut down opposing views - don’t resort to that or others will do the same and discussion remains stagnant. Objecting to others responding to like with like is conveniently one-sided don’t you think.

You do... and you have explained x amounts of times that these terms apply to young people, people on the left, people at university.

They are not always used in retaliation... a word you have used a number of times recently but as a descriptor for people with whom you don't agree. People who have never accused you of anything.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You do... and you have explained x amounts of times that these terms apply to young people, people on the left, people at university.

They are not always used in retaliation... a word you have used a number of times recently but as a descriptor for people with whom you don't agree. People who have never accused you of anything.

How do you know that - previous comments don’t have to be in the post actually responded to, or even the thread, but previous comments from that person still being bandied about generally.

And it is mainly young people that act this way, although not always of course, who then get on their high horse at a dose of the same. Rarely a lesson learned though unfortunately.

[Beso]

I went walking in london yesterday...went to parliament square where some anti tommy lot were mobbing up...they looked awful..all half washed piercings all over faces..


Ended up by trafalgar square where pro tommy robinson lot were mobbed up...lots of aggresive women in white and baldy men dressed like 1980s homosexuals.


State of the lot of them..
Riot cops everywhere at a cost im scared to imagine..

[Nicky91]

yes protests/riots are usually over the top and also with loads of drama