[Alf]

The Yellow Rose of Texas is the only girl for me


Texans

Have you been to the location of the Kennedy assassination in Dallas?

What about the Stevie Ray Vaughan statue in Austin? I love Texas Blues.

Youtube video

[Twosugars]

My beef with Yanks is their ott patriotism and exceptionalism. Going on and on how they're the best country in the world. They're not, not with the problems they're having.
If it was Switzerland or Sweden, fine, I'd not mind, but USA?
They used to be seen as the promised land by the rest of the world. Obviously no more, the days of welcoming immigrants are over.
Other than that they're ok.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

My beef with Yanks is their ott patriotism and exceptionalism. Going on and on how they're the best country in the world. They're not, not with the problems they're having.
If it was Switzerland or Sweden, fine, I'd not mind, but USA?
They used to be seen as the promised land by the rest of the world. Obviously no more, the days of welcoming immigrants are over.
Other than that they're ok.

Immigrants still welcome in the USA, just not illegal ones.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

Immigrants still welcome in the USA, just not illegal ones.

Not as they used to be, not since 1920s or thereabouts.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

My beef with Yanks is their ott patriotism and exceptionalism. Going on and on how they're the best country in the world. They're not, not with the problems they're having.
If it was Switzerland or Sweden, fine, I'd not mind, but USA?
They used to be seen as the promised land by the rest of the world. Obviously no more, the days of welcoming immigrants are over.
Other than that they're ok.

So because they are becoming more rigorous in vetting just who they are letting into their country in these violent, terrorist-riddled times, they are no longer the 'Promised Land'?

And what exactly is wrong with Patriotism?
,

[Alf]

Nothing wrong with patriotism.

Your country is a part of you, a place to call home. We don't have much in life, don't never let the Marxists take that away from you, Or your place to call home will be the Gulags.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

So because they are becoming more rigorous in vetting just who they are letting into their country in these violent, terrorist-riddled times, they are no longer the 'Promised Land'?

And what exactly is wrong with Patriotism?
,

Read up on American exceptionalism.

[glibberglobber]

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Read up on American exceptionalism.

I am Grammar School educated and self-educated after that and am familiar with the concept of 'American Exceptionalism' but I now have better things to do than continuing to read up on anything else to do with lop-sided propaganda stemming from Marxism.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am Grammar School educated and self-educated after that and am familiar with the concept of 'American Exceptionalism' but I now have better things to do than continuing to read up on anything else to do with lop-sided propaganda stemming from Marxism.

That's great as I don't see much point in debating you either

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by glibberglobber

If you put it like that it seems more acceptable

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jason.

I was in Texas last month and I thought the whole over-the-top state pride thing was just a stereotype but honestly most the people we met wouldn't shut up about Texas / being Texan.

I love Texas but the over-zealous bragging wears thin after a while, it's like when the Scots go on about how they're better than England when nobody outside the UK know they exist.

Back in the1980's my Uncle Ray was a Cab driver in London and he once picked up an American tourist. The guy was a stereotypical Texan - Stetson, huge cigar - the Full Monty.

According to Uncle Ray, the Texan never stopped talking or bragging.

As they drove past The NatWest Tower the Yank asked Uncle Ray what it was. Uncle Ray replied that it was the Natwest Tower - one of London's tallest skyscrapers.

The Yank roared with laughter and said: "Call THAT a skyscraper? Boy in Texas we got the J.P. Morgan Tower that just goddamn dwarfs that 'ole building of yours"

Uncle Ray bristled.

Then as they passed Battersea Power Station, the Yank asked what it was and Uncle Ray told him.

Again, The Yank roared with laughter and said: "Call THAT a Power Station? Hell boy back in Texas we got dozens of power stations with toilet blocks bigger than that"

Uncle Ray bristled even more.

Then the Yank pointed to the Thames and asked what it was, but Uncle Ray was ready for him and replied quick as a flash:

"Oh **** me - my radiator's burst".

Spoiler:

I'm LYING my old black ass off.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

Nothing wrong with patriotism.

Your country is a part of you, a place to call home. We don't have much in life, don't never let the Marxists take that away from you, Or your place to call home will be the Gulags.

Did I say there was? I'm patriotic too, but in a quiet way.
I said ott patriotism, things like flags in every front yard (or whatever it's called there), singing anthems at too many occassions,things like that. Imo, there's no need, you shouldn't need reminding like that.
And leave Marxism out of it, I actually witnessed communism as a child and its aftermath as a teenager, don't need lecturing on that. There's a middle way, you know, between constant flag-waving and communist utopia.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Did I say there was? I'm patriotic too, but in a quiet way.
I said ott patriotism, things like flags in every front yard (or whatever it's called there), singing anthems at too many occassions,things like that. Imo, there's no need, you shouldn't need reminding like that.
And leave Marxism out of it, I actually witnessed communism as a child and its aftermath as a teenager, don't need lecturing on that. There's a middle way, you know, between constant flag-waving and communist utopia.

But Ts2 - the Americans have no history and make up for it with pageantry and razzamatazz. Hell, even Micky Mouse is celebrated.

I just believe 1,000% that Americans are our allies and friends and that we would be ****ed without them, yet they are unjustly despised by certain factions in this country, who seem to have no problem with some truly hateful countries who despise us.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Did I say there was? I'm patriotic too, but in a quiet way.
I said ott patriotism, things like flags in every front yard (or whatever it's called there), singing anthems at too many occassions,things like that. Imo, there's no need, you shouldn't need reminding like that.
And leave Marxism out of it, I actually witnessed communism as a child and its aftermath as a teenager, don't need lecturing on that. There's a middle way, you know, between constant flag-waving and communist utopia.

The middle way is my way. But no harm comes from constant flag waving, so it doesn't bother me. Communism on the other hand.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

But Ts2 - the Americans have no history and make up for it with pageantry and razzamatazz. Hell, even Micky Mouse is celebrated.

I just believe 1,000% that Americans are our allies and friends and that we would be ****ed without them, yet they are unjustly despised by certain factions in this country, who seem to have no problem with some truly hateful countries who despise us.

Kirk, I'm not anti-American. It's just have higher expectations of my country, of Europe and its allies.
Tbh I thought this thread was more jokey than serious, and I find American flag-waving annoying but in a friendly way.
As someone who'd seen Soviet Union up close and personal, I appreciate America. But want them and us to strive to be better rather than be complacent in their achievements iykwim.
Hell I even agree with Trump when he calls for Europe to step up Nato spending even tho I can't stand the man himself.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Kirk, I'm not anti-American. It's just have higher expectations of my country, of Europe and its allies.
Tbh I thought this thread was more jokey than serious, and I find American flag-waving annoying but in a friendly way.
As someone who'd seen Soviet Union up close and personal, I appreciate America. But want them and us to strive to be better rather than be complacent in their achievements iykwim.
Hell I even agree with Trump when he calls for Europe to step up Nato spending even tho I can't stand the man himself.

But what is the image we are going for? What we are aspiring to?... With exceptionalism, we compare all our neighbors to our own "standard", which I can't stand. I really dislike when my own countrymen do it and is a large reason for voting for Obama (which I regret now)... I've never been a fan of an ethnocentric mindset. But that's the "popular" way of thinking in the West... and that was the footwork of a lot of our current issue(s) imo...

Tbf, I don't care what others think of us and what they "appreciate". It's not important to be appreciated. I think humility is what leads to the perception that something is "harmonious"... Aah, but there is humility and then faux humility... like my opinion, that's very common in Europe, this concept of "faux" humility... look how understated we are... we don't need those big cars that the folk in the US drive and all that space... puh...

Anyway, imo, exceptionalism is baked into the Western model. Probably some of it should change... but we can't lose sight of ourselves in the process of making that change. In any case, humans are inherently tribal, and ironically it's that tribal nature that makes all these "boxes" easier to fit into, at least as best as we possibly can...

[Maru]

Btw I am happy to report I am enjoying my tea extra hot atm....

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

But Ts2 - the Americans have no history and make up for it with pageantry and razzamatazz. Hell, even Micky Mouse is celebrated.

To be fair, I would say that America actually has a very rich and varied history. Especially taking into consideration how (relatively) short that history is.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Maru

Btw I am happy to report I am enjoying my tea extra hot atm....

You now need to move onto the next step, dunking biscuits (that's cookies in your language) in your tea.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Maru

But what is the image we are going for? What we are aspiring to?... With exceptionalism, we compare all our neighbors to our own "standard", which I can't stand. I really dislike when my own countrymen do it and is a large reason for voting for Obama (which I regret now)... I've never been a fan of an ethnocentric mindset. But that's the "popular" way of thinking in the West... and that was the footwork of a lot of our current issue(s) imo...

Tbf, I don't care what others think of us and what they "appreciate". It's not important to be appreciated. I think humility is what leads to the perception that something is "harmonious"... Aah, but there is humility and then faux humility... like my opinion, that's very common in Europe, this concept of "faux" humility... look how understated we are... we don't need those big cars that the folk in the US drive and all that space... puh...

Anyway, imo, exceptionalism is baked into the Western model. Probably some of it should change... but we can't lose sight of ourselves in the process of making that change. In any case, humans are inherently tribal, and ironically it's that tribal nature that makes all these "boxes" easier to fit into, at least as best as we possibly can...

..the thing is though, Maru....it is important what other countries think if us as a country...I mean that’s our whole standing in the world as a country..I completely see why it’s not important to you as an individual because you judge on individually also, which most or many of us do..so we can’t and shouldn’t generalise the USA as we can’t and shouldn’t generalise the UK either or any other country...but it is also of great importance to our sanding in the world view...so I completely understand the thoughts of TwoSugars...although yeah, probably a little deep and political for the thread vibe..

..I was listening to a radio debate programme just a few days ago..and there was an American guest on...I don’t recall his name but it was all about Donald Trump and Michael Cohen...the guest was quite defensive about any suggestion or questioning regarding a USA ‘political mess’ atm...?...quite hostile actually....but actually understandable so in a way because he shut down that questioning straight away by referring to how the UK is being seen by other countries atm in regards to politics and political leaders..because Jeremy Corbyn is allowing anti semitism in his party and also defending some quite dubious ‘alliances’ as he’s being portrayed atm and has always been...some probably ‘media assassination’, maybe...but it’s still how the UK are being seen by other countries..more or less look at your own backyard Mister UK was the gist of it...these things are important because they’re a whole standing of a country in the world...as individuals these things don’t seem important but as a country, they really are...they are the primary importance...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, I would say that America actually has a very rich and varied history. Especially taking into consideration how (relatively) short that history is.

...yeah totally..it may be a fairly new country in comparison to some...but fairly action packed in its history also...I guess it could be compared to a Hollywood movie in that so much has been fitted in to a shorter time span to keep our attention going throughout the movie...a little bit of everything thrown in there with the condensed but full history and never a dull moment etc...

[Ammi]

...anyways...generally, I’ve never known an American who I have found annoying in any way....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the thing is though, Maru....it is important what other countries think if us as a country...I mean that’s our whole standing in the world as a country..I completely see why it’s not important to you as an individual because you judge on individually also, which most or many of us do..so we can’t and shouldn’t generalise the USA as we can’t and shouldn’t generalise the UK either or any other country...but it is also of great importance to our sanding in the world view...so I completely understand the thoughts of TwoSugars...although yeah, probably a little deep and political for the thread vibe..

..I was listening to a radio debate programme just a few days ago..and there was an American guest on...I don’t recall his name but it was all about Donald Trump and Michael Cohen...the guest was quite defensive about any suggestion or questioning regarding a USA ‘political mess’ atm...?...quite hostile actually....but actually understandable so in a way because he shut down that questioning straight away by referring to how the UK is being seen by other countries atm in regards to politics and political leaders..because Jeremy Corbyn is allowing anti semitism in his party and also defending some quite dubious ‘alliances’ as he’s being portrayed atm and has always been...some probably ‘media assassination’, maybe...but it’s still how the UK are being seen by other countries..more or less look at your own backyard Mister UK was the gist of it...these things are important because they’re a whole standing of a country in the world...as individuals these things don’t seem important but as a country, they really are...they are the primary importance...

Let's consider brexit, who are we cosying up to in relation to trade? Our 'alliances' will be with countries and individuals who are far worse than 'dubious' they will be human rights ignoring tyrants....

Jeremy Corbyn is being seen that way because the media is instructed to field the controversy within this and the previous govt.
He is a convenient scapegoat, what really is of primary importance is that the UK public let it be known...across continents, that this is the case.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the thing is though, Maru....it is important what other countries think if us as a country...I mean that’s our whole standing in the world as a country..I completely see why it’s not important to you as an individual because you judge on individually also, which most or many of us do..so we can’t and shouldn’t generalise the USA as we can’t and shouldn’t generalise the UK either or any other country...but it is also of great importance to our sanding in the world view...so I completely understand the thoughts of TwoSugars...although yeah, probably a little deep and political for the thread vibe..

..I was listening to a radio debate programme just a few days ago..and there was an American guest on...I don’t recall his name but it was all about Donald Trump and Michael Cohen...the guest was quite defensive about any suggestion or questioning regarding a USA ‘political mess’ atm...?...quite hostile actually....but actually understandable so in a way because he shut down that questioning straight away by referring to how the UK is being seen by other countries atm in regards to politics and political leaders..because Jeremy Corbyn is allowing anti semitism in his party and also defending some quite dubious ‘alliances’ as he’s being portrayed atm and has always been...some probably ‘media assassination’, maybe...but it’s still how the UK are being seen by other countries..more or less look at your own backyard Mister UK was the gist of it...these things are important because they’re a whole standing of a country in the world...as individuals these things don’t seem important but as a country, they really are...they are the primary importance...

You said it matters our standing in the world, but didn't support it with an argument... why does it matter and what is it's value?

Note that I haven't said it doesn't. However, putting that at the forefront of our culture's philosophy has created major side-effects... and is different than what is being discussed in media and talk radio which is usually messaging and political nonsense...

I guess for me the difference is, I don't come to SD to American-splain to others. Much of my conversation(s) here are of recreational value (believe it or not). We don't really learn anything new from folk who are too similar to us. Our cultures share a similar set of principles in the over-arching philosophy that is Western culture. However, if we both have the same pressures and issue(s) in our culture and are criticizing one another, I don't feel like either of us is objective enough to really put our problems in full view... we share the same interests and, imo, the same narcissistic tendency to protect national image in light of what is happening across the world... basically, of all the cultures in the world, the Americans and British are very politically-oriented (by nature of our shared governing philosophy)... this is not always a good thing and it has had side-effects... and I'm one of those kind of people that love feedback, so it's not a matter of not wanting feedback... but rather, when does self-obsession with national image/identity go too far for us? (Americans)

Edit: BTW, sorry in advance if some of this is unclear... writing on a break -_-