[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Operations carry risks. So what?

Life is full of risks.

It's a balance of probabilities


Supporting the tory minister on this

Yes and the balance of probabilities is clear that vaccination is the right choice. Choice being the operative word. Enforcing it is a very, very slippery slope.

Just like if you need an operation, getting it is the right choice. I'd be pretty ****ing worried if doctors could just knock you out and put you under the knife without consent. Like I said, no one is ever going to convince me that taking away the right to bodily autonomy is a good idea, for any reason.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes and the balance of probabilities is clear that vaccination is the right choice. Choice being the operative word. Enforcing it is a very, very slippery slope.

Just like if you need an operation, getting it is the right choice. I'd be pretty ****ing worried if doctors could just knock you out and put you under the knife without consent. Like I said, no one is ever going to convince me that taking away the right to bodily autonomy is a good idea, for any reason.

Wouldn't this be done to protect children who are unable to be vaccinated, and as such, rely on herd immunisation to protect them?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Wouldn't this be done to protect children who are unable to be vaccinated, and as such, rely on herd immunisation to protect them?

Yes and also those who have had the MMR but have not developed immunity (which is also a larger proportion than is reported).

But that doesn't really matter because, like I said, I'm against removal of choice and bodily autonomy for any reason. We should encourage vaccination, emphatically, and always, the facts and figures back that up 100%. We should never be tempted to force it because it is a medical procedure, and sets a precedent for other government-mandated medical procedures. Given the state of the world / various governments right now, I have no idea why that prospect wouldn't horrify anyone.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes and also those who have had the MMR but have not developed immunity (which is also a larger proportion than is reported).

But that doesn't really matter because, like I said, I'm against removal of choice and bodily autonomy for any reason. We should encourage vaccination, emphatically, and always, the facts and figures back that up 100%. We should never be tempted to force it because it is a medical procedure, and sets a precedent for other government-mandated medical procedures. Given the state of the world / various governments right now, I have no idea why that prospect wouldn't horrify anyone.

Yes, was going to say this in my post but didn't know how to phrase it..very very slippery slope..

[bots]

it's a stupid law if it comes in. If any unvaccinated kid goes to school there is a danger they get a disease, but there is a danger they would get it anywhere. They don't put vaccinated kids at risk, so, i just don't see the logic behind it.

Also, the way to keep your kid out of school will be to not vaccinate them, which creates another issue. It's just not thought through

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Also, the way to keep your kid out of school will be to not vaccinate them, which creates another issue. It's just not thought through

It also furthers a sub-culture where the homeschooled children of parents who didn't vaccinate are even LESS likely to vaccinate their own children, which will only compound the problem in a few generations.

The efforts should be (and always should have been) in honest, open education around the subject and explaining the benefits of vaccination truthfully. Instead the focus is on vilification, scare stories (ur kids will def die!!) and threats (u can't send ur kids 2 school!!) which frankly is just never going to work.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes and the balance of probabilities is clear that vaccination is the right choice. Choice being the operative word. Enforcing it is a very, very slippery slope.

Just like if you need an operation, getting it is the right choice. I'd be pretty ****ing worried if doctors could just knock you out and put you under the knife without consent. Like I said, no one is ever going to convince me that taking away the right to bodily autonomy is a good idea, for any reason.

The state dictate many things for the public good.
Would you say highway code should be a choice?
Attending diabetic appointments a choice?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

The state dictate many things for the public good.
Would you say highway code should be a choice?
Attending diabetic appointments a choice?

Trying to compare a medical procedure to road safety is nonsense, and attending an appointment for diabetes is a choice.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Trying to compare a medical procedure to road safety is nonsense, and attending an appointment for diabetes is a choice.

I think you're making it into a big big brother like scenario.

It is just vaccines

Not buying this thin end of the wedge stuff

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I think you're making it into a big big brother like scenario.

It is just vaccines

Not buying this thin end of the wedge stuff

It's just vaccines today, and just the main ones today, until they start adding more vaccines that are mandatory, and then slide sideways into other medical procedures. This isn't tinfoil hat stuff; if we give governments the right to make medical decisions for us, they absolutely will grab it with both hands, and thinking that long term it'll remain "just vaccines" is, to be blunt, recklessly naive.

This is what I mean about cognitive dissonance - multiple people on this thread who I am 90+% sure would agree on principle if it was any other topic... ... ... ... "But vaccines eek!".

[Ammi]

...it would be impossible to implement as a ban because it’s compulsory by law for a child to attend school...(..I would also doubt that teachers or unions would be on board with that at all..)...but I guess what it’s doing in screaming this ...is paving the way to scream...’we will fine...’...another day, another tax...etc..

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it would be impossible to implement as a ban because it’s compulsory by law for a child to attend school...(..I would also doubt that teachers or unions would be on board with that at all..)...but I guess what it’s doing in screaming this ...is paving the way to scream...’we will fine...’...another day, another tax...etc..

Already a Nursery went on National TV
saying everyone has to prove their kid has been vaccinated

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's just vaccines today, and just the main ones today, until they start adding more vaccines that are mandatory, and then slide sideways into other medical procedures. This isn't tinfoil hat stuff; if we give governments the right to make medical decisions for us, they absolutely will grab it with both hands, and thinking that long term it'll remain "just vaccines" is, to be blunt, recklessly naive.

This is what I mean about cognitive dissonance - multiple people on this thread who I am 90+% sure would agree on principle if it was any other topic... ... ... ... "But vaccines eek!".

I do sympathise with your argument TS.
But we've given up our privacy to CCTV. Vaccines is another example where personally I'd expect that common good should trump individual freedom. Sorry, it is my gut reaction even though I understand your concerns