[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It was dismissive of women who think there are concerns when it comes to clashes with women's rights - and in this post, you are still suggesting that those women are "transphobic people". Your opinion hasn't changed, you're saying the same now as you were on page one, and as such my opinion hasn't changed either: You have more concern for progressing trans rights than you do for considering the rights and safety of women that might be eroded in the process. That might be because "you don't think they will be" but that's not really relevant, as we're talking about sympathy, which doesn't require agreement. When you say "it wasn't aimed at women" you mean "...because it wasn't aimed at the many women who happen to agree with me on this topic". It was aimed squarely at the many women who disagree with you, it dismissed their concerns without even an attempt at discussion, it (frankly) with "relax and love it" told them that they should keep their mouths shut. This is classic misogyny whether you can see it or not - and if you can't - and you really do see yourself as appreciating both sides of this debate - all I can do is suggest you think about it.

Everybody can disagree with me, it's fine and that's debate and we love it.
It was aimed at transphobic people, and again, not towards not-transphobic people who have genuine concerns about the topic.
Point, blank and period. You were not in my head when I wrote it, you seem to know better what I meant and felt. It probably came out wrong, but I suppose you won't see any differently. If you don't trust me, then it is life and so be it. Have a lovely saturday

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

Everybody can disagree with me, it's fine and that's debate and we love it.
It was aimed at transphobic people, and again, not towards not-transphobic people who have genuine concerns about the topic.
Point, blank and period. You were not in my head when I wrote it, you seem to know better what I meant and felt. It probably came out wrong, but I suppose you won't see any differently. If you don't trust me, then it is life and so be it. Have a lovely saturday

But Remy... "Nobody is being transphobic - just relax and love it."

Maybe you can see it better flipped, I don't know.

Your post was aimed at people who you personally have decided are in your opinion transphobic, not an objective category of "transphobic people"... and not aimed at people who have concerns that you believe to be genuine, not an objective category of people with genuine concerns.

I think that's an important distinction to make and the root of the disagreement here, but other than that I'm sure we can leave it there.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But Remy... "Nobody is being transphobic - just relax and love it."

Maybe you can see it better flipped, I don't know.

Your post was aimed at people who you personally have decided are in your opinion transphobic, not an objective category of "transphobic people"... and not aimed at people who have concerns that you believe to be genuine, not an objective category of people with genuine concerns.

I think that's an important distinction to make and the root of the disagreement here, but other than that I'm sure we can leave it there.

The root of disagreement is that, again, I was not mentionning anybody specifically ON THIS GOD DAMN THREAD OR FORUM but it was somehow decided otherwise. How can that be any clearer? God damn it. You just do not accept any of my justification.

Transhobia is very clear with clear motives. All I said to transphobic people is: try to be more accepting and don't be threatened by transpeople.
Again, not at people are NOT transphobic and have genuine concerns about it like most lovely members on this forum.
You know what, next time I will keep my message of tolerance and loving each other to myself since it's a big problem. Can I just add that some people read this forum, member or not, and I thought it was cute to tell some of them who MIGHT be transphobic (in accordance to objective facts) that transpeople are not to be worried about and there's no reason to be fearful.

And also, just because I work with LGBT+ communities does not mean I'm insensitive to what women feel. I had very interesting conversations with Vicky last night and other people about surgeries, access to same sex places etc Trying to dig deeper into it. I guess that's all for nothing.

I have to go to the local shelter, have a lovely weekend everyone! And love each other

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Stop pretending that you care about fairness in sports when that is one of the least relevant parts of the conversation. If that was the only problem people had with trans women then there wouldn't be the same transphobia over and over on the forum.

To which you replied

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

And I couldn't have said it any better than you have.

It seems that lately it's always the threads about sexuality and gender that trigger the most heated conversations and obvious ignorance.

Some people really feel fragile and threatened when it comes to how others live their lives. Just move on and accept others for what they are, it really is not hard. Nobody is attacking or threatening you, just relax and love it.

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

The root of disagreement is that, again, I was not mentionning anybody specifically ON THIS GOD DAMN THREAD OR FORUM but it was somehow decided otherwise. How can that be any clearer? God damn it. You just do not accept any of my justification.

I don't accept your justification because it's the internet and, the annoying thing about the internet is, you don't have to "remember what was said" you can just go back and look. It's patently obvious that you were at least initially talking about threads on this forum .

If you didn't mean this forum then I'm not sure, given the above, you can really get frustrated at anyone else for the misunderstanding? Be more careful what you wholeheartedly agree with if... you don't? And if you do, don't try to backpedal.

[Ammi]

...that’s really unfair and shabby when Remy went on to explain and expand and clarify...he’s made many very considered posts throughout the thread but this where we’re at so ‘conversations must be had’ isn’t really the place it’s at, it seems....I’m gone.../...just shabby...

[user104658]

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[Ammi]

...so patronising and all so conducive of encouraging open conversation/discussion and not shutting down...