[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I’m 100% against actual mandatory medical procedures and always will be, I would never support enforced vaccination of the whole population.

I just disagree that it being made a job requirement in a specific industry like healthcare is a removal of freedoms any more than any other job requirement. If someone doesn’t like the job requirements of a job (any job) they have the freedom to say “not for me, sorry” and find other employment. Trying to describe it as “being forced” is too problematic because all sorts of jobs have all sorts of requirements… the idea that “anyone should be able to have any job they want with no prerequisites” just isn’t feasible.

Legally (and practically) I think it’s probably not possible to fire all of the healthcare workers who refuse.

Morally I think that people who are in healthcare (or at the very least, working with the elderly) should either get vaccinated or voluntarily step away. The risk to the over-80’s with Covid is genuinely massive. It’s completely different to pretty much any other scenario.

I think that sacking the unvaccinated medical staff would do far more damage to the elderly, because there would be far less people caring for them. And the conspiracy theorist in me says that's what they want.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Alf

But what you're saying is that even though your mum is fully vaccinated, you don't trust that the vaccines protect her, so you have no faith in the vaccines. These people also have no faith in the vaccines, and they believe it's more risky to take one then to not take one.

Hope your mum gets well soon.

Thank you Alf.

Yes I get that, no one has said however the vaccines stop you getting it.
The vaccines should stop you getting seriously ill and therefore preventing unnecessary death and even hospitalisation.

However you can still get it.
Plus you're more likely to get it from someone unvaccinated probably.

So in a care or hospital setting, it can't be risked anyone not vaccinated putting those with other conditions adding covid to the pot too.

Same with my home situation at present.
I personally don't want anyone in my home and especially to have anything to do with my Mum's health, who hasn't had the available vaccinations.

As I said earlier I was screaming at the government for failing to protect those in care homes and hospitals as to not making sure residents and patients were protected with the maximum protection.
Equally so all the staff protected to the maximum too.

Now they are trying to ensure that, I can only support the harder stance they are taking on the vaccine.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Tackling fires is extremely risky.

Taking a vaccine is not very risky.

Firefighters have to be willing to tackle fires to be firefighters, or they are putting the public in danger.

Healthcare workers have to be willing to have certain vaccinations, or they are putting the public in danger.

People who don’t want to tackle fires because they’re worried about the danger should (obviously, I would have thought) choose a non-firefighting career.

People who don’t want to have a vaccine because they’re worried about the danger should choose a non-healthcare career.

Neither are being forced to do anything. No one is being forced into burning buildings. No one is being forced to take the vaccine.

Have more people been killed fighting fires this year or from taking the vaccine?

[Beso]

2 people in my office have caught covid since being double vaxed..both have been off for more than 2 weeks with one having to take more time off with serious long covid symptoms.

[bots]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Have more people been killed fighting fires this year or from taking the vaccine?

the chances of catching covid are much much higher than the chances of being trapped in a building on fire

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Have more people been killed fighting fires this year or from taking the vaccine?

I don't know the figures for either but I do know that the question is wrong because it can only be accurately answered proportionately, not as a raw number; over 4 billion people are vaccinated, there are not 4 billion firefighters in the world.

So the question is "are you more likely to be killed or injured entering a burning building than to be killed or injured getting a vaccine" and the answer is a very obvious yes. You're more likely to be killed or injured driving to the supermarket than getting a vaccine.

And of course there are far more dangerous professions than firefighting. Deep Sea Fishing I believe has a staggeringly high deaths/injuries rate. So I guess we could use that example too. Can you say "I don't want to go on any boats but I still want to be a deep sea fisherman and you are removing my freedoms if you say I can't do that".

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Alf

I think that sacking the unvaccinated medical staff would do far more damage to the elderly, because there would be far less people caring for them. And the conspiracy theorist in me says that's what they want.

The reality of the current NHS staffing crisis is that they really can't afford to fire all of those staff members, which is why I think it's an empty threat anyway. But that's a separate issue really... the question of "is it justified" vs "will they actually do it".

I think saying "you can't work with the elderly and vulnerable if you aren't vaccinated" is justified ... but in reality, I don't think they'll actually do it in this country. They're already horrifically understaffed.

[Liam-]

I wonder if these anti-vaxxers are so adamant not to have any injections when it comes to going on holiday?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I wonder if these anti-vaxxers are so adamant not to have any injections when it comes to going on holiday?

Some will not Fly.
So yes they are Crazy Folk.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

2 people in my office have caught covid since being double vaxed..both have been off for more than 2 weeks with one having to take more time off with serious long covid symptoms.

Yes but because of the Jabs
it prevents them going in Hospital.

Off for 2 weeks

Could be 1 week with tests at the end.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I wonder if these anti-vaxxers are so adamant not to have any injections when it comes to going on holiday?

As pure guesswork; they were fine with it pre-covid and never gave it a second thought, but now they'd cry "my freedums". We'll probably also see a surge in the number not getting their kids vaxxed. Stuff that they'd never have bothered about before but now they've had a wee google and gone down a Reddit rabbithole.

[bots]

what i'm finding since covid hit is that there has been a sweeping generalised categorisation of anti vaxxers when the majority of people not getting vaccinated are merely vaccine hesitant which is a different thing entirely. The actual % of anti vaxxers is a tiny % of the population

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what i'm finding since covid hit is that there has been a sweeping generalised categorisation of anti vaxxers when the majority of people not getting vaccinated are merely vaccine hesitant which is a different thing entirely. The actual % of anti vaxxers is a tiny % of the population

Yes Alf


is tiny.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes but because of the Jabs
it prevents them going in Hospital.

Off for 2 weeks

Could be 1 week with tests at the end.

2 weeks and counting..

[arista]

Meanwhile Down Under Gets Tough
Call the Police permitted for Alf's flock

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't fathom why they would NOT want a jab. There is now enough statistical information to prove that jabs lower your risk of serious illness....dealing with sick people I would like all the protection I could. Like construction workers are not allowed on site without a hard hat, steel toe caps and high vis....

There is a lot of scare mongering out there....about it not being fully tested on long term effects. There was a debate on LBC the other day saying that it will have an impact on heart conditions especially in men...
Although it is not guaranteed to stop you getting the virus it is supposed to lessen your chances of being hospitalised and thats certainly true with my husband and I and my 91 year old father who has just had it with very mild symptoms....I wonder if there are any stats saying how many double jabbed people have been hospitalised or actually died...

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Alf


is tiny.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

There is a lot of scare mongering out there....about it not being fully tested on long term effects. There was a debate on LBC the other day saying that it will have an impact on heart conditions especially in men...

The thing to remember there though is that Covid itself can have an effect on the cardiovascular system and the chances of that are far higher than with the vaccine ... so unless unvaccinated people think they can simply avoid EVER catching Covid naturally (highly unlikely, it's not going anywhere) then their increased risk of heart problems is much higher without the vaccine than with it. That's what I think some people aren't factoring in, I guess. They're weighing up "the risks of vaccines" vs "the risk of nothing at all", when it needs to be weighed against "the risk that comes with catching Covid naturally".

Basically ALL of the risks of vaccination are also risks with natural Covid ... but they're even more likely.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As pure guesswork; they were fine with it pre-covid and never gave it a second thought, but now they'd cry "my freedums". We'll probably also see a surge in the number not getting their kids vaxxed. Stuff that they'd never have bothered about before but now they've had a wee google and gone down a Reddit rabbithole.

Which proves that they're not anti-vaxers add to that they don't protest the flu jab pretty much confirms that. So the label "Anti-vaxers" is so wide of the mark.

So maybe you're wasting time on concentrating on the vaccine and not looking into what they're really protesting about.

I think it's fairly obvious that Elite Globalist tyranny is what they're protesting against.

They first started protesting against being forced to shut down people business's and made to stay in their homes with the Police set on them if they didn't, and wear a mask to buy their groceries and were stopped from travelling, nothing to do with a vaccine. They're now protesting against authoritarian mandates like this and the threats of identity certificates, and the totally blanent hypocrisy and propaganda from those pushing these things.

This is definitely about The people's freedoms vs the Globalist tyranny, choose your side wisely.

[Beso]

Do many anti vaxxers work in the care homes or for the NHS.

I doubt they do, so we need to address the elephant in the room and discuss why people of non english ethnicities will not take up the vaccine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

From Talkradio just now

90,000 NHS staff are not vaccinated

Govt figures suggest that this move will persuade 20,000 to get vaccinated by next April

So potentially 70,000 will be sacked


Protect the vulnerable
Save lives
Protect the NHS

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

From Talkradio just now

90,000 NHS staff are not vaccinated

Govt figures suggest that this move will persuade 20,000 to get vaccinated by next April

So potentially 70,000 will be sacked


Protect the vulnerable
Save lives
Protect the NHS

How many of that figure are frontline staff? I read a stat that 5% are unvaccinated but it didn't say if they were office support staff with no patient access or actual nursing / care / ward staff.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

How many of that figure are frontline staff? I read a stat that 5% are unvaccinated but it didn't say if they were office support staff with no patient access or actual nursing / care / ward staff.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-09/...aff-in-england

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

From Talkradio just now

90,000 NHS staff are not vaccinated

Govt figures suggest that this move will persuade 20,000 to get vaccinated by next April

So potentially 70,000 will be sacked


Protect the vulnerable
Save lives
Protect the NHS

To put these numbers in perspective, the NHS employs just shy of 2 million people across the UK.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To put these numbers in perspective, the NHS employs just shy of 2 million people across the UK.

sacking 70,000 people

is sacking 70,000 people

70,000 families

what is the uptick?

can we see the number benefit?