[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Who is everyone?

Their victims, yes, the families of those victims? Time served will never be enough for them.

It wouldn't be a good deterrent. People who engage in sexual activities with children are mentally unwell. Deport them and let them potentially continue in another country? It's not going to stop some from still engaging in this sort of activity.

Most of the men in these grooming gangs are not mentally ill they're just abusers and rapists. They're not targetting pre-adolescent children, they're targetting teenage girls who have biologically reached the age of sexual maturity, but are nonetheless clearly not adults, are vulnerable, and easily groomed or manipulated which is precisely why we have an age of consent and statutory rape laws.

There's nothing to be gained by conflating statutory rapists and grooming gans like these with paedophilia, it simply is psychologically speaking not paedophilia, and in legal terms there's a clear distinction between child molestation (pre-pubescent children) and statutory rape (post-pubescent but under the age of consent).

That's not to say that one is more severe or worse than the other, that would be a separate debate, in this sense though I think it can inadvertantly DOWNPLAY the crimes of these men by saying that they have a mental illness or deviant compulsion that they can't control, rather than calling what they are; predators who target vulnerable young girls simply because they're more easily manipulated.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Most of the men in these grooming gangs are not mentally ill they're just abusers and rapists. They're not targetting pre-adolescent children, they're targetting teenage girls who have biologically reached the age of sexual maturity, but are nonetheless clearly not adults, are vulnerable, and easily groomed or manipulated which is precisely why we have an age of consent and statutory rape laws.

There's nothing to be gained by conflating statutory rapists and grooming gans like these with paedophilia, it simply is psychologically speaking not paedophilia, and in legal terms there's a clear distinction between child molestation (pre-pubescent children) and statutory rape (post-pubescent but under the age of consent).

That's not to say that one is more severe or worse than the other, that would be a separate debate, in this sense though I think it can inadvertantly DOWNPLAY the crimes of these men by saying that they have a mental illness or deviant compulsion that they can't control, rather than calling what they are; predators who target vulnerable young girls simply because they're more easily manipulated.

So you don't think somebody who rapes someone or abusers someone is mentally ill?

People often don't like to hear it because they let their own personal feelings way too heavily on such circumstances, but we would treat someone who has schizophrenia, for example, but not view them in the same light as a rapist or abuser.

Yes they are also predators and manipulators, but I also think they're mentally ill. Something is not right in their cognition to make them do such things in the first place.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

So you don't think somebody who rapes someone or abusers someone is mentally ill?

People often don't like to hear it because they let their own personal feelings way too heavily on such circumstances, but we would treat someone who has schizophrenia, for example, but not view them in the same light as a rapist or abuser.

Yes they are also predators and manipulators, but I also think they're mentally ill. Something is not right in their cognition to make them do such things in the first place.

No I don't think all rapists and abusers are mentally ill, far from it. They may have serious social deficiencies in their life that have led them down a path of anger, violence and entitlement but that's not the same thing as a mental illness. Take a look at the historical stats and figures relating to any invading military force in history; Romans, Vikings, the European conquest of the Americas... rape and abuse were absolutely rife. Were all of those people "mentally ill"? No they were just violently rampaging and knew they would get away with it.

I wish I thought all rapists and abusers were mentally ill, I really do. Unfortunately with my wife working full time with the victims of domestic abuse and rape, I'm too painfully aware of just how common it actually is to think it's likely that all abusers are mentally unwell. It's absolutely everywhere, in places you wouldn't even imagine, from people you wouldn't imagine. Horrifying.

edit] I think I can shorten this, really;

I think there are many, many deeply immoral people in the world, and I don't believe that immorality is a mental illness.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No I don't think all rapists and abusers are mentally ill, far from it. They may have serious social deficiencies in their life that have led them down a path of anger, violence and entitlement but that's not the same thing as a mental illness. Take a look at the historical stats and figures relating to any invading military force in history; Romans, Vikings, the European conquest of the Americas... rape and abuse were absolutely rife. Were all of those people "mentally ill"? No they were just violently rampaging and knew they would get away with it.

I wish I thought all rapists and abusers were mentally ill, I really do. Unfortunately with my wife working full time with the victims of domestic abuse and rape, I'm too painfully aware of just how common it actually is to think it's likely that all abusers are mentally unwell. It's absolutely everywhere, in places you wouldn't even imagine, from people you wouldn't imagine. Horrifying.

edit] I think I can shorten this, really;

I think there are many, many deeply immoral people in the world, and I don't believe that immorality is a mental illness.

I don't think it's common for people to think they're mentally unwell, like I say I think people view it completely differently and don't have the empathy for someone who is genuinely unwell and has gone on to commit rape or abuse someone. Personal feelings override that.

Yeah not all, but some will be. They obviously have issues anyway.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I don't think it's common for people to think they're mentally unwell, like I say I think people view it completely differently and don't have the empathy for someone who is genuinely unwell and has gone on to commit rape or abuse someone. Personal feelings override that.

Yeah not all, but some will be. They obviously have issues anyway.

I certainly don't think they're mentally healthy but that's a very different thing to having an actual mental illness.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I certainly don't think they're mentally healthy but that's a very different thing to having an actual mental illness.

I still don't think people would care.

It's something very overlooked because all people see is the crime they are accused of committing.

That's my point.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No I don't think all rapists and abusers are mentally ill, far from it. They may have serious social deficiencies in their life that have led them down a path of anger, violence and entitlement but that's not the same thing as a mental illness. Take a look at the historical stats and figures relating to any invading military force in history; Romans, Vikings, the European conquest of the Americas... rape and abuse were absolutely rife. Were all of those people "mentally ill"? No they were just violently rampaging and knew they would get away with it.

I wish I thought all rapists and abusers were mentally ill, I really do. Unfortunately with my wife working full time with the victims of domestic abuse and rape, I'm too painfully aware of just how common it actually is to think it's likely that all abusers are mentally unwell. It's absolutely everywhere, in places you wouldn't even imagine, from people you wouldn't imagine. Horrifying.

edit] I think I can shorten this, really;

I think there are many, many deeply immoral people in the world, and I don't believe that immorality is a mental illness.

Couldn’t agree more TS.
Greedy self entitled bstds that think they can do and have what they want.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Couldn’t agree more TS.
Greedy self entitled bstds that think they can do and have what they want.

From what I've seen its a mindset that sadly seems to be spreading quite rapidly among young teenage lads these days from all backgrounds... there are complicated social circumstances surrounding it but what I keep coming back to in terms of how quickly these toxic mindsets (aggression, entitlement) are taking hold is Social Media. To be more specific, mainly TikTok and YouTube. Overall... mainly TikTok.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Couldn’t agree more TS.
Greedy self entitled bstds that think they can do and have what they want.

And yet there are so many people who are happy to ensure that THEIR human rights aren’t impinged on .

Those were innocent young girls /women and it turns my stomach .

I still think we are far , far too soft in this country


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[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Zizu

And yet there are so many people who are happy to ensure that THEIR human rights aren’t impinged on .

Those were innocent young girls /women and it turns my stomach .

I still think we are far , far too soft in this country


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Let's just stick them in hole then to rot?

What do you suggest?

Deportation doesn't solve anything. They hold British citizenship

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Let's just stick them in hole then to rot?

What do you suggest?

Deportation doesn't solve anything. They hold British citizenship

Yeah the hole would work ..


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