[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Fair enough.

Seriously though both sides are awful, there isn't such a thing as good racism or good wokeism (if that's a word)

The problem, is that they are both constructs coming from the exact same side. "wokeness" started off as a tongue-in-cheek approach to black people knowing their own history. "stay woke." It then became a word used to describe opposition to anything.

You think trans people should be treated with respect? You're woke.
You think masks and vaccines were a good idea? You're woke
You think a policeman kneeling on the neck of a black man and killing him isn't a good thing? Well, you've guessed it - you're woke.

No one calls themselves woke, it is only used by those wishing to diminish or restrict the freedoms of others, to dismiss opposition without explanation or justification.

The government doesn't win a court case - that's because of woke lawyers. You get the picture.

To hold up racism and anti-racism (which is also woke these days) as equally bad concepts, doesn't really make a lot of sense. If WW2 were happening today, then churchill would be woke. Don't fall for stupid, meaningless propagandistic labelling.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The problem, is that they are both constructs coming from the exact same side. "wokeness" started off as a tongue-in-cheek approach to black people knowing their own history. "stay woke." It then became a word used to describe opposition to anything.

You think trans people should be treated with respect? You're woke.
You think masks and vaccines were a good idea? You're woke
You think a policeman kneeling on the neck of a black man and killing him isn't a good thing? Well, you've guessed it - you're woke.

No one calls themselves woke, it is only used by those wishing to diminish or restrict the freedoms of others, to dismiss opposition without explanation or justification.

The government doesn't win a court case - that's because of woke lawyers. You get the picture.

To hold up racism and anti-racism (which is also woke these days) as equally bad concepts, doesn't really make a lot of sense. If WW2 were happening today, then churchill would be woke. Don't fall for stupid, meaningless propagandistic labelling.

No
woke no longer means wanting equality & respect, now when I think of woke ...I think of self entitled people demanding others to do what they say .

Wokeism is now shoving agenda's down people's throats, and if you dare question or disagree then you're 'cancelled' & a 'bad person ' .

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights

No
woke no longer means wanting equality & respect, now when I think of woke ...I think of self entitled people demanding others to do what they say .

Wokeism is now shoving agenda's down people's throats, and if you dare question or disagree then you're 'cancelled' & a 'bad person ' .

You can think of whatever you want, but like Mock, it doesn't make it true.

So go on then, who has actually been cancelled? Name them, and lets have a look at it.

Your previous comment is the perfect example of how I explained it. You call yourself more centrist now (which is perfectly fine if that's how you feel about things).

But when it comes to politics ,I'm becoming more & more centrist , as both sides p1ss me off

Nothing wrong with changing your political opinions, but to me, the reasoning is a really weird buy in of the propaganda I spoke about. We've spoken before about you supporting Corbyn, so let me put this back into political terms for you.

I used to support a fully funded NHS, a fairer tax system, and an end to homelessness, but now I'm a neoliberal who supports part privatisation of the NHS, and a continuation of unfair tax policy, because the left shows more support for trans people (even though age is perhaps a bigger indicator).

Like I said, have whatever opinions you like - it's none of my business, but using right wing words to define left wing politics into only being about wokeness, is the exact aim of right wing politics to dismiss better solutions.

Be centrist, be far right, be anything you want, but if you're changing your whole political philosophy because you don't like a specific group of people, and nor do you like being held accountable for that dislike, then that is stupid, and non-political, which was the premise of my last post that you disagreed with.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights

No
woke no longer means wanting equality & respect, now when I think of woke ...I think of self entitled people demanding others to do what they say .

Wokeism is now shoving agenda's down people's throats, and if you dare question or disagree then you're 'cancelled' & a 'bad person ' .

That is also a big issue with the woke community.

They're not a very forgiving bunch.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That is also a big issue with the woke community.

They're not a very forgiving bunch.

Yo. Do you have an example of what you're on about? Something that you've done that's stirred up the ire of "leftists", and that you haven't been forgiven for?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Yo. Do you have an example of what you're on about? Something that you've done that's stirred up the ire of "leftists", and that you haven't been forgiven for?

Not me personally.

I think it's just when I've seen the Twitter crowd get riled up about certain things that people say or do it's kind of pisses me off tbh.

Like that one time someone drew the Scooby-Doo characters on there, and then some idiot told them that "representation matters" and started making certain characters look totally different just to be more "diverse."

But tbh my biggest beef is still with the right wing publications on how they treated Caroline Flack before she died.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Not me personally.

I think it's just when I've seen the Twitter crowd get riled up about certain things that people say or do it's kind of pisses me off tbh.

Like that one time someone drew the Scooby-Doo characters on there, and then some idiot told them that "representation matters" and started making certain characters look totally different just to be more "diverse."

But tbh my biggest beef is still with the right wing publications on how they treated Caroline Flack before she died.

Do you see what I mean? you don't have to agree with me, but do you at least see my point?

You said wokesists were as bad as racists, I ask for an example, and you said not you, but a couple of people on twitter.

Do you see how uneven those issues are?

Not having a go or trying to belittle you, but does this at least provide an example for how overblown the "dangers of wokeism" are versus the reality of what is being done to the world?

I agree about Ms Flack - Dan Wooton was rewarded for that by being given his own right wing TV show to spew more hate, so taking that into consideration, do you still consider wokeism/bigotry as 2 sides of the same coin?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Do you see what I mean? you don't have to agree with me, but do you at least see my point?

You said wokesists were as bad as racists, I ask for an example, and you said not you, but a couple of people on twitter.

Do you see how uneven those issues are?

Not having a go or trying to belittle you, but does this at least provide an example for how overblown the "dangers of wokeism" are versus the reality of what is being done to the world?

I agree about Ms Flack - Dan Wooton was rewarded for that by being given his own right wing TV show to spew more hate, so taking that into consideration, do you still consider wokeism/bigotry as 2 sides of the same coin?

Admittedly I did exaggerate it a little bit about how bad woke stuff can be, especially when thinking about that they're more of a danger to entertainment related things rather than people's actual lives.

So basically I can see where you're coming from.

And I honestly can't believe that Dan Wooton got rewarded for his treatment towards Caroline Flack, and the sad thing is that he hasn't learned anything from that incident.

[Oliver_W]

I generally take the view that all "active participants" are the bad eggs. Being generically against the isms and phobias isn't woke, it's basically the standard.

There's a difference between blaming the arresting police officer when Fentalyn Floyd passed away when he was trying to apprehend him, and using a man's death as an excuse to spend several months rioting.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The problem, is that they are both constructs coming from the exact same side. "wokeness" started off as a tongue-in-cheek approach to black people knowing their own history. "stay woke." It then became a word used to describe opposition to anything.

You think trans people should be treated with respect? You're woke.
You think masks and vaccines were a good idea? You're woke
You think a policeman kneeling on the neck of a black man and killing him isn't a good thing? Well, you've guessed it - you're woke.

No one calls themselves woke, it is only used by those wishing to diminish or restrict the freedoms of others, to dismiss opposition without explanation or justification.

The government doesn't win a court case - that's because of woke lawyers. You get the picture.

To hold up racism and anti-racism (which is also woke these days) as equally bad concepts, doesn't really make a lot of sense. If WW2 were happening today, then churchill would be woke. Don't fall for stupid, meaningless propagandistic labelling.

I agree with you that the word woke is wrongly used in a lot of those situations that you've mentioned above.

I think it's when it comes to more trivial areas of our lives does the woke mindset come into play, and speaking for myself when I'm playing a Video Game or watching a TV Show, I want to be entertained/unwind a little bit, rather than be told that I'm prejudiced in some way for not liking the product for being too woke.

And personally I don't like how Satire is dead because apparently it's "punching down" to go for certain groups, when personally I see it as that every group is open for Satirical takes, including groups that I belong to as well just to clarify that I'm not a hypocrite.

But wanting to have basic Human Rights for certain communities isn't woke, and the George Floyd incident again isn't woke if you're horrified by what happened.

Basically for me personally, I just feel a bit mentally drained by both the racists and the woke for totally different reasons.