[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

You say Jewish. I say Israeli. And therein lies the problem.

And no, I'm not even figuratively 12 years old.

I said Jewish knowingly and specifically because I'm well aware that therein lies the problem - a Catch 22 problem that existed long before this conflict. Criticism of the Israeli government and policy is seen as (or disingenuously accused of being) antisemitic criticism of or dislike of Jewish people in general, when it is nothing of the sort. Viewing any world government as being emblematic of a group in any arbitrary way (so whether you're defining "Jewish" as a religious belief system or an ethnicity) and thus dismissing any criticism of that political power as xenophobic, is a HUGE problem.

I certainly don't conflate Israel and Judaism, but it's always been a standard thing to do.

FWIW I imagine the political elite of Israel are entirely godless and using it simply as a carrot & stick in the same way that the political elite has since the dawn of civilisation.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I said Jewish knowingly and specifically because I'm well aware that therein lies the problem - a Catch 22 problem that existed long before this conflict. Criticism of the Israeli government and policy is seen as (or disingenuously accused of being) antisemitic criticism of or dislike of Jewish people in general, when it is nothing of the sort. Viewing any world government as being emblematic of a group in any arbitrary way (so whether you're defining "Jewish" as a religious belief system or an ethnicity) and thus dismissing any criticism of that political power as xenophobic, is a HUGE problem.

I certainly don't conflate Israel and Judaism, but it's always been a standard thing to do.

FWIW I imagine the political elite of Israel are entirely godless and using it simply as a carrot & stick in the same way that the political elite has since the dawn of civilisation.

the problem is that you desperately have to qualify your words, you have done that so often in this thread

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the problem is that you desperately have to qualify your words, you have done that so often in this thread

I don't particularly think it's my fault or problem that I've had to ELI5 things to people who are failing to grasp (or more often deliberately misrepresenting) things that shouldn't be particularly difficult to understand. But I'm increasingly understanding that expecting anything more than a sad scrabble around the bottom of the intellectual barrel from threads on here is a long-dead pipe dream.

[Cherie]

Coming back to the question you posed earlier in the thread SB and Palestinians rejoicing after the Oct 7th attacks did you not see videos of the cheering in the streets when they paraded that German girl half dead through the streets?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Coming back to the question you posed earlier in the thread SB and Palestinians rejoicing after the Oct 7th attacks did you not see videos of the cheering in the streets when they paraded that German girl half dead through the streets?

I don't believe I questioned there being celebratory videos of Palestinians; I did query how many of those were women and children.

The other obvious thing to point out is that "many = most" is a very commonly made error. "Lots of people were there celebrating" doesn't indicate that the majority of people agree. Lots of people go to Wimbledon; it would be daft to conclude from that that most people are tennis fans. And, of course, no one would conclude that, because these "misunderstandings" only ever seem to apply to divisive issues.

[Liam-]

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents, including children, does that make them terrorists or terrorist sympathisers? What’s good for the goose and all that

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Liam-

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents, including children, does that make them terrorists or terrorist sympathisers? What’s good for the goose and all that

It's so heartbreaking. I can't bear it!

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents,

Which videos?

If they exist, it makes the participants the same as those doing similar in Palestine.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents, including children, does that make them terrorists or terrorist sympathisers? What’s good for the goose and all that

Nobody said otherwise you need to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, its not goodies versus baddies like come cartoon

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nobody said otherwise you need to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, its not goodies versus baddies like come cartoon

I totally agree with this but I have to say Cherie, I rarely if ever see you saying this to the anti-muslim pro-Israel members, when there are multiple examples of those members doing the exact same as you describe on this very thread. Some daily. In multiple threads.

[DemRed]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Which videos?

If they exist, it makes the participants the same as those doing similar in Palestine.

If they exist? I have to ask, do you have internet?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemRed

If they exist? I have to ask, do you have internet?

I don't care enough to verify their existence. I'll take Liam's word that some (horrible) people celebrated their country attacking another country, and that it was caught on video.

[DemRed]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

FWIW I imagine the political elite of Israel are entirely godless and using it simply as a carrot & stick in the same way that the political elite has since the dawn of civilisation.

The war on words is a full time job for the Israeli government, the Lobby and their ilk. Conversations and debate have been radically suppressed with sickening overreach up until now.
We should all have critical friends. It makes life so much more interesting.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemRed

The war on words is a full time job for the Israeli government, the Lobby and their ilk.

unlike the Terrorist Hamas "government" and their far left useful idiots?

[DemRed]

Far Left... Give your head a wobble.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemRed

Far Left... Give your head a wobble.

last time I checked the Marxist masked mobs that support palestine/hamas/terrorism are far left

[Crimson Dynamo]

This isn’t just Netanyahu’s opinion.

Palestinians must not be allowed to treat October 7 as their Independence Day.
The world must not send them the message that gang rape works. They must
not look back at 10/7 as a moment that propelled their cause forward.

https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1790829835750678764

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nobody said otherwise you need to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, its not goodies versus baddies like come cartoon

We should drop a big cartoon bomb on all the baddies afte we rescue all the goodies

[DemRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

last time I checked the Marxist masked mobs that support palestine/hamas/terrorism are far left

No, that's your skewed view of people. That's like saying, all those who support Israel are Far Right. I'm not sure why you even think that way.

For me personally it is political but its also about having empathy with the indigenous people of Palestine who have had to live for decades with an oppressive military apartheid. I see the Israel government as a racist criminal project that has got away with crimes against humanity for many years.

I didn't support the South African apartheid... the colonialists who repressed and subjugated the Aborigines and the American Indians either.... this is no different.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemRed

No, that's your skewed view of people. That's like saying, all those who support Israel are Far Right. I'm not sure why you even think that way.

For me personally it is political but its also about having empathy with the indigenous people of Palestine who have had to live for decades with an oppressive military apartheid. I see the Israel government as a racist criminal project that has got away with crimes against humanity for many years.

I didn't support the South African apartheid... the colonialists who repressed and subjugated the Aborigines and the American Indians either.... this is no different.

f me you literally have been brainwashed by social media like a 1st year uni student with a keffiyeh and a face mask plus a years sub to Antifa Whatsapp

[Beso]

The far left are hijacking all these marches for Palestine for their own agenda. You can see the same faces at the trans proteststs that are still going on. It's as though they want civil war.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The far left are hijacking all these marches for Palestine for their own agenda. You can see the same faces at the trans proteststs that are still going on. It's as though they want civil war.

mass-produced marxist placards and when interviewed they have no idea what they mean

[DemRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

f me you literally have been brainwashed by social media like a 1st year uni student with a keffiyeh and a face mask plus a years sub to Antifa Whatsapp

Nice try. You remind me of wee tube.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemRed

Nice try. You remind me of wee tube.

no I'm serious

you have

you sound like Greta

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I totally agree with this but I have to say Cherie, I rarely if ever see you saying this to the anti-muslim pro-Israel members, when there are multiple examples of those members doing the exact same as you describe on this very thread. Some daily. In multiple threads.

I love how you try to paint me as Islamaphobic, it was the good for the goose comment that prompted my post