[NettoSuperstar!]

More police patrols would be a bloody good idea aswell especially in rough areas. You'd maybe think twice about what your doing if you know police are round there regualrly

[M X]

Omg. I don't think they should ever be let out. What they did was bad & sick & I don't know how anybody could do such a thing!

[ange7]

Originally posted by TheMichaelO
Omg. I don't think they should ever be let out. What they did was bad & sick & I don't know how anybody could do such a thing!

yeah we get it...rah rah rah ... have you given the idea of how it could have happened any thought at all?

[30stone]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!

they deserve to be put away for a long time but it doesnt seem to work elsewhere locking people up forever. I doubt for second they considered the consequences of what they were doing

well at least in jail, people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them.

[ange7]

Originally posted by Freyja
Our justice system is incredibly lenient though. How often to the perpetrators of these crimes actually get a sentence which fits the crime?

We only have to look at the lads who killed Jamie Bulger to see how much of a joke the law is in this country. They are living new lives with new identities. In my view they should have been incarcerated for life.

I like the way the law works in (some of) the states in America. People get sentenced for each crime, and then the sentences get added together. So, a serial killer could theoretically be serving 150 years in prison, meaning that even taking into account reduced sentences for good behaviour, they'd still be in jail a pretty long time.

I have two children Ange, and to be honest, it scares me that children are capable of such crimes. I raise mine well, but maybe some of these boys were raised "well" also. All it takes is to get in with the wrong crowd, and a well-adjusted, normal teenager can turn into this. I think it's because of our lax laws though. Criminals get away with so much and it can lead to a feeling of invincibility for some when they see others doing crimes and not paying the price.

Where I live there are a lot of young people who break the law and generally act like idiots, but there are equally as many who don't. I think it must be hard for the kids who live in rough areas to get recognised for the good things that they do. Too often, people judge you on where you live, and because a selection of your community behave badly, they assume you will too. I got that to an extent when I was a teenager, but it's so much worse now. It's a shame, because there are a lot of good kids in this area, who go to school, do well, and try to make something of their lives, and yet the only ones which ever get highlighted are the ones who don't.

yeah we have the same debates here in Australia but tougher sentences don't stop crimes. A crazy idiot who plans to murder his wife because he suspects she's was having an affair doesn't stop and consider the current sentencing policy.

Here we had the penalties for some crimes actually legislated... ie judges lost their discretionary powers and HAD to put kids away if they committed a petty crime 3 times. So even if the judge though the kids didn't deserve jail time they HAD to give it... called the three strike rule. Failure! Kids that would have normally gone straight after their home life was sorted were sent to prisons where they were brutalised, victimised and learnt how to start their criminal careers from the experts. The policy has since been dropped. Tougher sentences didn't dissuade them and tougher sentences seems to me like a easy answer for people who couldn't be bothered trying to work out why some kids get so broken that they'd do something like that.

Anyway my point was there's something about a mob.. the "mob mentality" that once you join you leave your brains at the door...." rah rah rah". So if these kids were a little more self confidant and didn't feel they were on the outer all the time then they'd feel less need to join a gang and have their thinking done for them. I get where your coming from and I'm not trying to be an apologist for them but just trying to work out how it could have got to that. For some people this is an easy question... they answer it with " because they are evil and need fixing... rah rah rah" ... but that seems way too simplistic.

[ange7]

Originally posted by 30stone

well at least in jail, people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them.

rah rah rah TIBB mob... anal rape... that's your solution. Mate your a hair's width away from thinking like them.

[30stone]

Originally posted by ange7

rah rah rah TIBB mob... anal rape... that's your solution. Mate your a hair's width away from thinking like them.

what?

[NettoSuperstar!]

yeh some kind of hope and aspirations would be a start for kids in the most deprived areas. I grew up in a rough area and I turned out ok (in the end), but I know some of the kids round my way never even had any kind of start and you can see why people get involved in gangs, drugs, crime etc, not condoning any of it but you see how they end up that way.

[ange7]

Originally posted by 30stone

what?

yeah what don't you get?
Stoner I'm not sure your anal rape crime prevention strategy will catch on. That's your point isn't it? "people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them"... in prison. If your OK with people getting raped in prison as some form of justice then your no better than them. What's not to get? Telling us you'd like the idea of those offenders getting raped doesn't make you look like a person who hates rape but rather a person who'd be prepared to use rape under some circumstances. We get it... you hate rape... you hate it so much you'd like to see them raped. Since when has the problem of violence been solved by violence.

Mate we're talking about how a mob works, about how when someone is part of a mob they stop thinking straight.. ."rah rah rah". ... and just join in thoughtlessly due to a need to fit in and belong. It happens all over the place...lol including on TIBB threads! "rah rah rah" when people respond with " ewww that's horrible". That's irritating and bleedingly obvious and only serves the poster by proclaiming the kind of person they'd like to be seen as rather than actually working out the issues involved in this thread.

[ange7]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
yeh some kind of hope and aspirations would be a start for kids in the most deprived areas. I grew up in a rough area and I turned out ok (in the end), but I know some of the kids round my way never even had any kind of start and you can see why people get involved in gangs, drugs, crime etc, not condoning any of it but you see how they end up that way.

Exactly .... crime prevention starts at the grass roots and child by child. Not by some stupid threat of harder punishments.... US has the death penalty and has that worked form them?... crime down?

Point is if some kids are alienated and have no self respect they are more likely to feel the need to join up with other larger groups in an attempt to fit in and belong. Not just talking of gangs but this general need some kids have of feeling so inadequate that they need to join something... anything and an attempt to be affirmed... but in the process compromise their individuality and have the group think for them. Leading to some pretty horrific results in the case of this group of kids.

[lily.]

A good place to start would be a shake-up of the social services in this country. There are too many kids living in violent, abusive homes, being dragged up and missing school, etc. Yet social workers visit these families every day and nothing improves.

I see it in my own street. I see neglect and abuse, and they take the child away for a few weeks, then they return the child to the parent and the cycle starts all over again. I am powerless to do anything about it, but the social work department shouldn't be.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Freyja
A good place to start would be a shake-up of the social services in this country. There are too many kids living in violent, abusive homes, being dragged up and missing school, etc. Yet social workers visit these families every day and nothing improves.

I see it in my own street. I see neglect and abuse, and they take the child away for a few weeks, then they return the child to the parent and the cycle starts all over again. I am powerless to do anything about it, but the social work department shouldn't be.

yeh its difficult social workers tread a fine line with these things. If they get it wrong then they could be taking a kid away from a family unnessecarily even if it isnt ideal in some peoples eyes, they might be better off staying with their parents than putting them through the pain of being separated from their families and going into care. There was a thread not long back on social services out of control taking kids away from parents to fill adoption targets lol! Then sometimes they get it wrong and you have a baby P situation. How they didnt spot what was going on there is shameful, but thats doctors and others aswell.