[Kerry]

Originally Posted by angus58

Again, I'm with you - but you'll never get some to understand it.

I'm gobsmacked others don't understand but I guess they won't until they have kids. Upset we're alientated if we do

[Angus]

Originally Posted by setanta

But could you push the button, that's what I'm asking?

Oh yes, you have to push a button to administer the injection, no hardship at all. Pity there aren't any Dexters around to mete out natural justice to fellow murderers and abusers. OT a bit, but what a fantastic notion, a serial killer with a moral compass!

[Kerry]

Think I'll head to the 4am Club before bed. Bit more light hearted!

[setanta]

Originally Posted by angus58

Oh yes, you have to push a button to administer the injection, no hardship at all. Pity there aren't any Dexters around to mete out natural justice to fellow murderers and abusers. OT a bit, but what a fantastic notion, a serial killer with a moral compass!

I haven't actually watched that show yet, but nah, couldn't ever push the button myself, especially if I had kids.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by setanta

I haven't actually watched that show yet, but nah, couldn't ever push the button myself, especially if I had kids.

You'll put your life on the line when you have kids Jimmy

[Angus]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

I'm gobsmacked others don't understand but I guess they won't until they have kids. Upset we're alientated if we do

If you read through this whole thread you'll see I'm public enemy number one for daring to suggest that you have to be a parent to fully understand where we're coming from on this issue. Apparently,according to some teenagers and other FMs,(coincidentally childless ones) we're both wrong

[setanta]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

You'll put your life on the line when you have kids Jimmy

That's totally different though. I'd lie across a road for any of my family, no question about it, but to kill someone in front of them in cold blood like that... nah, not for me.

Plus could you imagine the phonecalls you'd get, "nah Paul, can't meet you for lunch cuz I'm away to kill a murderer today. How about a few pints later on?" Nah, too mental for me.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by angus58

If you read through this whole thread you'll see I'm public enemy number one for daring to suggest that you have to be a parent to fully understand where we're coming from on this issue. Apparently,according to some teenagers and other FMs,(coincidentally childless ones) we're both wrong

Don't worry about it too much. Everyone seems to be the enemy at some point

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by setanta

That's totally different though. I'd lie across a road for any of my family, no question about it, but to kill someone in front of them in cold blood like that... nah, not for me.

Plus could you imagine the phonecalls you'd get, "nah Paul, can't meet you for lunch cuz I'm away to kill a murderer today. How about a few pints later on?" Nah, too mental for me.

Who said I'd kill anyone infront of my family?

[setanta]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Who said I'd kill anyone infront of my family?

That's what happens at executions. Witnesses and all of that.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by setanta

That's what happens at executions. Witnesses and all of that.

Not if they don't want to be there

[Kerry]

Seriously, no one want a laugh in 4am for a bit?

[setanta]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Not if they don't want to be there

They'd still know that you killed someone, as would all of your friends. That's bound to have an effect on people.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by setanta

They'd still know that you killed someone, as would all of your friends. That's bound to have an effect on people.

Well it's not here so no use talking about it

[setanta]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Well it's not here so no use talking about it

But it's the logical conclusion to a debate about capital punishment, particularly when people start to personalize it, that's all.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by setanta

But it's the logical conclusion to a debate about capital punishment, particularly when people start to personalize it, that's all.

I can't say anything other than if someone killed my child I'd want them dead

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Why? in fairness she's done nothing but deride me and others throughout the topic and used the kids as an excuse to do so, Shaun said it the best when he said being a mother doesn't instantly make you a genius on the subject or more entitled to an opinion the people without.

But when something terrible happens in your family,IT DOES.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by kazanne

But when something terrible happens in your family,IT DOES.

Thanks for support Kazanne, but I'm not that concerned about the opinions of the sort of people who can show compassion and forgiveness towards scum who commit the vilest of crimes, but display none of those noble and moralistic attitudes towards the victims' parents/families who quite rightly demand proper and equitable justice. Most of the time they fail to get justice because of the perverse concern for the rights, feelings and sensibilities of the criminal; rights which are placed above the rights of parents/families to see justice done. When it isn't done, it is like that child or loved one's life is diminished and less worthy than that of the person who took it. I don't find their attitude noble, moral or progressive, but just plain misguided and self indulgent.

The Human Rights Legislation is hugely flawed because as far as I'm concerned rights are not God given, they are commensurate with responsibilities towards humanity. If criminals choose to break the law to harm others, they should lose the right to invoke the law to protect themselves. You cannot have it both ways. The Act has been hugely abused by wrongdoers - what about a child's right to grow up in a society free of the risk of molestation, abuse, neglect and murder, and the right of a parent to see justice served on any scum who harmed their child?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by setanta

But it's the logical conclusion to a debate about capital punishment, particularly when people start to personalize it, that's all.

It is ridiculous to expect anyone who has lost a child to come to a "logical" conclusion in a debate on capital punishment. There are some people who can accept the crap justice meted out to murderers, rapists and paedophiles but I'm certainly not one of them, and I have no intention of justifying myself to anyone.

[joeysteele]

I slept on this debate and what a great debate it is, of course there are passionate views on all sides and I can see InOnes arguments too.
My firm respect on this thread goes to Angus58 and kazane who have made soild, points all the time even in the face of hostility at times. but I understand the emotions this will enrage in others too who take a differing view.

I know the word evil is considered a wrong word to use as to people, but I feel it is the only word to describe anyone who abuses a child.I think that abuse,which often also ends in the death of a child too remember,is one that can only be termed evil and the full weight of the law should be piled on the abuser.
I am against capital punishment in the main but I cannot comprehend the rotten minds that are into child abuse.so for me something more severe does need to be done to deal with these people(I use the word people loosely).

My only fear of capital punishment is that if someone knows if caught,that they are likely to face a death penalty,then it is likely they will kill the child they are abusing in order to try to get away with it, especially so if the child could identify them,thinking on the lines they had nothing to lose by killing the child. Punishment though needs to be different and more unpleasant.

I also have to say what brilliant contributions from jedward fever on this too, he is only 14 and his knowledge on so many issues are amazing, his family should be very proud of him and he has talked more sense in this debate than many others who are certainly older than him. How great to know someone like jedward fever is also part of the future of this Country. Superb reasoning from you jedward fever. Very impressive and right.

Great debate, an emotive issue and I still stand totally alongside kazanne and Angus58 in their views.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Don't worry about it too much. Everyone seems to be the enemy at some point

Oh, I'm not worried about it at all - I'm not about to apologise for having strong opinions about a subject close to my heart, I'm more baffled by the dispassion evident in some of the posts on here.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I slept on this debate and what a great debate it is, of course there are passionate views on all sides and I can see InOnes arguments too.
My firm respect on this thread goes to Angus58 and kazane who have made soild, points all the time even in the face of hostility at times. but I understand the emotions this will enrage in others too who take a differing view.

I know the word evil is considered a wrong word to use as to people, but I feel it is the only word to describe anyone who abuses a child.I think that abuse,which often also ends in the death of a child too remember,is one that can only be termed evil and the full weight of the law should be piled on the abuser.
I am against capital punishment in the main but I cannot comprehend the rotten minds that are into child abuse.so for me something more severe does need to be done to deal with these people(I use the word people loosely).

My only fear of capital punishment is that if someone knows if caught,that they are likely to face a death penalty,then it is likely they will kill the child they are abusing in order to try to get away with it, especially so if the child could identify them,thinking on the lines they had nothing to lose by killing the child. Punishment though needs to be different and more unpleasant.

I also have to say what brilliant contributions from jedward fever on this too, he is only 14 and his knowledge on so many issues are amazing, his family should be very proud of him and he has talked more sense in this debate than many others who are certainly older than him. How great to know someone like jedward fever is also part of the future of this Country. Superb reasoning from you jedward fever. Very impressive and right.

Great debate, an emotive issue and I still stand totally alongside kazanne and Angus58 in their views.

Yes, it is a highly emotive issue and it's not surprising that there are strongly held views on both sides of the argument. It got quite heated at one point, but on the other hand it would have been strange if it had not.

I, too, am impressed by jedward fever's grasp of points made and his ability to form his own opinions about such important issues at such a young age. I find his attitude and comments far more mature than those of some on here.

To think the whole argument kicked off because I dared to state that IF the justice system were to fail me, I would not let it rest there, I would do all in my power to ensure the perpetrator was punished! How else are we to get the government to address the imbalance between the rights of criminals and victims' families if people just sit back and accept the status quo. Until proper and appropriate sentences are handed down to criminals, our judicial system will continue to betray law abiding citizens, and allow criminals to commit dreadful crimes for which they know they will not have to pay a corresponding penalty.

[joeysteele]

You are completely right Angus58 and as kazanne confirmed a saying I particularly like that I quoted which went alone the lines of 'for evil to thrive,good people just have to sit back and do nothing'.

You set off I think one of the best debates I have come across on here since joining,but it isn't a half baked debate, it is an issue you believe in and all you are really demanding is the right punishments and also the recognition of what a vile act this is.

I just think to myself,as I see young Children with their parents, my own Nephews and Nieces and think. how can anyone do anything to harm them, what rotten element is in the heads of adults and indeed anyone that decide to abuse a child this way.

Just thinking about it is sickening and I dare bet everyone, if ever their child or a child in their family or even a child they knew was abused this way, they would be saying the same as you completely.
Really, I think this debate and this thread is one of the best ever on here in my time on the forum.
I am also glad you agree as to jedward fever, he does have a great attitude and maturity on lots of sensitive issues on here.

[Kazanne]

I cannot believe Jedward Fever is just 14,what an intelligent young lad he is,he has put to shame some of his fellow posters to shame,with his grasp of humanity and his views on things,I knew he had a good head on him as soon as he announced Ben his fave housemate,lol,so for you Jedward,well done,your parents have done a great job with you,such a shame there are not more teenages around like you,I may not be posting too much now,cant be doing with moderators favouring their 'mates' and childish immature posts,but I have met some great posters here they know who they are:-))Think I will head to the adults forum for a while.

[joeysteele]

kazanne, it will be very sad if you are not posting on here,I doubt that I have disagreed with anything much you have said, I have said all you added as to jedward fever long before this debate so I totally agree with you too on that one as well. He is an amazing young man.

Please keep enlightening us with your views kazanne,this debate did spark a lot of passion and different emotions and thoughts but overall its clear who really made the valid and sensible comments as opposed to those who may not have thought carefully enough about it

The innocence of Children must never be violated,(in truth I doubt anyone would disagree with that), so if it is, I for one have no sympathy for the 'vile' abuser/s and I also make no apology for that stance either.

They had no respect or showed any respect for the child they abused, equally so no respect of any kind should then be shown to the 'vile' abuser/s.