[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Thanks Joey. I recall years ago, watching a documentary - iirc, it was a teenager or a young adult. They/their mother replaced regular crisps with 'low fat' crisps -(they continued to munch their way through a dozen packs a day or so, but it was okay, coz they were eating 'low fat' varieties). Instead of thick chocolate biscuits, they stocked up on 'non choc' biscuits, instead of enough fried breakfast to feed 6 people, they moved to grilling - and reduced (for example) the 6 bacon rashers, tin of beans, 4 eggs, 5 sausages, 4 slices of toast - to about 3 bacon, 1/2 tin of bean, 2 eggs, 3 saus, 2 slices of toast - then had two bowls of cereal afterwards...... and let the kid eat their way through kilos of fruit via constant snacking all day.

The dieticians, nutrtionists, doctors could not get it through to either the child or the mother, that regardless - the amount of food being consumed was still far too much - as well as still being much of the wrong type.

Incredible, ignorant and in complete denial in every sense.

Their argument? He eats healthy food and lots of it

That sounds exactly like anorexia to me...

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

That sounds exactly like anorexia to me...

Absolutely.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Absolutely.

you don't see how replacing the words too much, with too little would be exactly applicable to anorexics?

I don't you're interested in exploring the concept, i think you're just interested in condemning overweight people.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

you don't see how replacing the words too much, with too little would be exactly applicable to anorexics?

Nope. Anorexic don't eat. Obese people eat to much. It's not exactly rocket science or difficult to understand. It is completely different ends of the spectrum.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Nope. Anorexic don't eat. Obese people eat to much. It's not exactly rocket science or difficult to understand. It is completely different ends of the spectrum.

that's like saying having brain cancer is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to having cancer in the marrow of your leg bones. OMG the cancer is on totally different ends of the body, so it's not comparable at all!


The fact is, both over-eating, and anorexia are both eating disorders, and all eating disorders are part of the disease of Addiction.

Over-eating and Anorexia and Bulimia are all the same disease. They are all eating disorders and they all fall under the same umbrella of Addiction.

...and yes, Addiction is a MEDICAL DISEASE.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

that's like saying having brain cancer is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to having cancer in the marrow of your leg bones. OMG the cancer is on totally different ends of the body, so it's not comparable at all!


The fact is, both over-eating, and anorexia are both eating disorders, and all eating disorders are part of the disease of Addiction.

Over-eating and Anorexia and Bulimia are all the same disease. They are all eating disorders and they all fall under the same umbrella of Addiction.

Let's be honest here Alex, you are really losing the thrust and intricate nature of this discussion aren't you.

Obesity is not always an 'eating disorder'. Anorexia and bulimia are however. So no, they do not 'all fallunder the same umbrella as addiction'.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

...and yes, Addiction is a MEDICAL DISEASE.

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

The difference is you have to eat. So no avoidance.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

A very pertinent point - and one in which I tend to completely agree with in the main.

I don't buy into the 'alcoholism' being an illness for example.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

by your logic cancer is not a medical disease eigther then, because many people claim to have cured themselves through holistic herbal rememdies and stuff.

Addiction has nothing to do with willpower. Addiction is like diabetes. you can manage it through a strict regime, but it is incredibly difficult. But you cannot choose to be an addict, just like you cannot choose to be a diabetic.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

I go with you near all the way Zippy, however I don't know, lostalex is in the States, maybe addictions are seen as diseases there.

Also in the UK many addictions as to drugs and drinking are dealt with medically,even with no serious illness problems to treat the addiction and minimise it and then get them off it.
Of course as you say, the addictions do most often lead to serious health matters and then it is an alcohol or drug related medically recognised disease.

I help out,only an hour a week at an addictions centre and no 2 people are the same, you can have 8 people with the same addiction but will often need to apply totally different plans for each of them.

Getting people to admit they have a problem whether that's drugs, drinking or any eating disorders is the real hardest part.