[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

the best solution is not to employ people, but to self employ people

How the heck does that work?...Is it another scam to get out of paying employees holiday/sick pay and pensions?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by kizzy

How the heck does that work?...Is it another scam to get out of paying employees holiday/sick pay and pensions?

Pretty much.

The same as these 0 hour contracts that are getting more and more popular too

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

How the heck does that work?...Is it another scam to get out of paying employees holiday/sick pay and pensions?

why should 1 individual take on board all of that expense and risk? especially when theres so many bad ,lazy unreliable workers, often drink addicted too>?
have you ever employed anyone? try it, you have to pay for everything, stamp, insurance, sick pay, products, repairs, salaries, overheads, rent, advertising, tax, fuel, etc etc thats before you even start to make any profit to pay yourself and feed your children

many people are self employed and work for companies. this makes them free agents to work in several jobs if they so wish. why should 1 individual trying to start a business take on board every single piece of risk to get started? isnt that individual also entitled to some time with his or her family too?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

why should 1 individual take on board all of that expense and risk? especially when theres so many bad ,lazy unreliable workers, often drink addicted too>?
have you ever employed anyone? try it, you have to pay for everything, stamp, insurance, sick pay, products, repairs, salaries, overheads, rent, advertising, tax, fuel, etc etc thats before you even start to make any profit to pay yourself and feed your children

many people are self employed and work for companies. this makes them free agents to work in several jobs if they so wish. why should 1 individual trying to start a business take on board every single piece of risk to get started? isnt that individual also entitled to some time with his or her family too?

I haven't no, but if I did I would firstly check the personal/career references and vet my staff via interview..
Hopefully this would weed out the drunks?
In my mind if you are an employer the onus is on you to provide a contract of employment to safeguard said employee and yourself.
What this contract contains is up to yourself and is agreed upon by your staff before signing.

I don't know where you get the idea I was suggesting that as an employer you wouldn't get time with family?..
Bottom line is it is unworkable, to have casual workers register as self employed, how would they pay tax? 4 jobs, with 4 salaries, over 4 differing timescales?

The fact of the matter is any employer knows now they have the unemployed by the short and curlies!
they need you more than you need them, and so wages have been driven down in all sectors as supply exceeds demand.
If you think this is good for bosses bank balances you would be right, if you think it is good for society and the country as a whole you would be very very wrong.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I haven't no, but if I did I would firstly check the personal/career references and vet my staff via interview..
Hopefully this would weed out the drunks?
In my mind if you are an employer the onus is on you to provide a contract of employment to safeguard said employee and yourself.
What this contract contains is up to yourself and is agreed upon by your staff before signing.

I don't know where you get the idea I was suggesting that as an employer you wouldn't get time with family?..
Bottom line is it is unworkable, to have casual workers register as self employed, how would they pay tax? 4 jobs, with 4 salaries, over 4 differing timescales?

The fact of the matter is any employer knows now they have the unemployed by the short and curlies!
they need you more than you need them, and so wages have been driven down in all sectors as supply exceeds demand.
If you think this is good for bosses bank balances you would be right, if you think it is good for society and the country as a whole you would be very very wrong.

No this is not the reality. There are vast numbers of unreliable people with poor work ethics and major drink and drugs issues. When a worker lets down his employer, that employer can lose a 5 year contract in one day? That means he is losing tens of thousands of pounds of income on the back of one unreliable , lazy sometimes dishonest worker, who has decided he has something better to do that day.

Business doesnt have any sympathy. if a company needs £2 million of cargo delivered and it doesnt get there on time. they cancel, they sue for damages and they dont use that company again. the entrepreneur/the boss is left footing the bills, the compensation claims, the insurance, the wages, the lost contracts and the massive overdrafts?

you can vet as much as you like and yes of course vetting is crucial I agree. But people dont exist on paper, they exist in reality. in a nation of binge drinkers, the work ethic and consistent reliable behaviour falls and this has enormous impact on business and business bosses. the attitude thats built in recent years is to hate rich people. but theres a massive difference between a multi millionaire overpaid footballer and a person trying to start his/her own business to create wealth and jobs. people who start businesses should get massive support. sadly they get nothing , no support whatsoever, then if people think they are successful , they get jealousy and workers trying to rip them off and take advantage. very few understand or even begin to empathise with the pressure of an entrepreneur starting a business in this country

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

No this is not the reality. There are vast numbers of unreliable people with poor work ethics and major drink and drugs issues. When a worker lets down his employer, that employer can lose a 5 year contract in one day? That means he is losing tens of thousands of pounds of income on the back of one unreliable , lazy sometimes dishonest worker, who has decided he has something better to do that day.

Business doesnt have any sympathy. if a company needs £2 million of cargo delivered and it doesnt get there on time. they cancel, they sue for damages and they dont use that company again. the entrepreneur/the boss is left footing the bills, the compensation claims, the insurance, the wages, the lost contracts and the massive overdrafts?

you can vet as much as you like and yes of course vetting is crucial I agree. But people dont exist on paper, they exist in reality. in a nation of binge drinkers, the work ethic and consistent reliable behaviour falls and this has enormous impact on business and business bosses. the attitude thats built in recent years is to hate rich people. but theres a massive difference between a multi millionaire overpaid footballer and a person trying to start his/her own business to create wealth and jobs. people who start businesses should get massive support. sadly they get nothing , no support whatsoever, then if people think they are successful , they get jealousy and workers trying to rip them off and take advantage. very few understand or even begin to empathise with the pressure of an entrepreneur starting a business in this country

Again you have lost me in a maze of bizarre hypotheticals...
What about the 1000's of employees that go above and beyond for the companies they work for?...Working unpaid overtime, working on days off, bending over backwards to get orders filled....What of those?

Where you have got this idea the the rich are hated is beyond me too, people who make money by exploiting vulnerable people for example wonga.com charging 4000% interest for unsecured loans to the poorest members of society that is loathsome and morally corrupt.
But the chairman writes employment policies and donates to the conservative party so its ok.

I am well aware there is a difference between a millionaire businessman and a footballer...Why you threw that in the mix is beyond me.
People usually only react badly to employers if they feel they are being exploited, undervalued, overworked, discriminated against or pressured, it works both ways if you want your workforce to respect you you must respect them.

I can empathise with entrepreneurs in this country, I can also empathise with the millions of decent, honest, hardworking unemployed people crying out for a full time permanant job with a living wage to support their families!