[Niall]

Originally Posted by Marc

No I know that but why is it so fundamentally wrong to allow gay people to have the exact same?

Oh.

Well it's something that's been so deeply entrenched in society for so so so many reasons. Let's just be thankful that it's finally dying off.

[Black Dagger]

BECAUSE IT'S WRONG AND THE BIBLE SAID SO...

And it will ruin the sanctity of marriage!!!!!!!!!

[joeysteele]

I caught some of this debate, obviously I would have supported the bill and also think it has taken too long to get to this point anyway.

I am impressed that David Cameron continued to press ahead with this and it may be revealing that 136 Conservative MPs were among the 175 who voted against this bill.
I believe though that David Cameron does have public support with him on this issue and also it is clear now, Parliament too.
From what I saw, I would also have to commend Yvette Cooper and her contribution to this issue,really strong performance from her definitely.

I felt Nadine Dorries was a big fail on this one and she came across as very amateur too.
Really good to see this go through with such overwhelming support form all parties in the house overall.

[bbfan1991]

I thought we are ALL supposed to be equal? Some people being against this proves that is not certainly the case in their eyes although I understand that for some people it is on religious grounds whether I agree or disagree with their views.

(I am in favour of Equal Marriage) btw.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Harry!

I am so glad that the MPS voted for the allowance of gay marriage. Jesus said "Love your neighbour as yourself." so Christians should be in acceptance of Gay relationships. Victory!

Love your neighbour as yourself is one of the Ten Commandments. Jesus said the words because he was a Jew who also said that he "upheld the Laws of Moses". So you're taking those words completely out of context. I'm not sure why you think Christians should uphold gay marriage when other religions won't be expected to. We're back to one law for one, and one law for another.

But that's another debate entirely.

I think it's entirely right that gay people should be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony in the same way heterosexuals can.

[Shaun]

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Love your neighbour as yourself is one of the Ten Commandments. Jesus said the words because he was a Jew who also said that he "upheld the Laws of Moses". So you're taking those words completely out of context. I'm not sure why you think Christians should uphold gay marriage when other religions won't be expected to. We're back to one law for one, and one law for another.

But that's another debate entirely.

I think it's entirely right that gay people should be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony in the same way heterosexuals can.

Who actually says there should be one law for Christianity, and one law for other religions though? Cameron has often said that Churches won't be forced to carry out gay marriages and have the right to be exempt if they choose, there are several Christianity churches who do support same sex marriage though

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Who actually says there should be one law for Christianity, and one law for other religions though? Cameron has often said that Churches won't be forced to carry out gay marriages and have the right to be exempt if they choose, there are several Christianity churches who do support same sex marriage though

The word "law" was a poor choice of words on my part. A better one would have been "expectation".

If a church chooses to marry gay people, they obviously, there can't be a problem with it, and I personally would have no problem with it (although I'm not a Christian). It's the assumption by some people that the Church of England is a bit of an easy target and will be labelled bigots if they refuse that I find a bit out of kilter.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

The word "law" was a poor choice of words on my part. A better one would have been "expectation".

If a church chooses to marry gay people, they obviously, there can't be a problem with it, and I personally would have no problem with it (although I'm not a Christian). It's the assumption by some people that the Church of England is a bit of an easy target and will be labelled bigots if they refuse that I find a bit out of kilter.

Ah ok, yeah I can see where you're coming from

[Kizzy]

The issue has been raised due to pressure from LGBT christians though, maybe this is why the focus is on this faith specifically?

[Nedusa]

Offering exemptions to certain churches allowing them to "Opt out" is just a big red herring . The Govt know that cannot force any churches to conduct gay marriages if they do not wish to. The law when it comes into force will allow civil marriages to be open to same sex coues as well as hetero couples. The religious side of this debate is a separate issue one that is not really covered by today's events.

[Ninastar]

This is great news!

I do however, think if a church doesn't wish to partake, then they should be allowed to do so.

[iRyan]

Does this mean gay marriage will essentially become legal in Britain now? Great news and long overdue.

[arista]

Originally Posted by iRyan

Does this mean gay marriage will essentially become legal in Britain now? Great news and long overdue.

Only after the the Real Old Ones
if the House Of Lords approve it

[Nedusa]

I think like the Bill on Fox hunting this Bill on same sex marriage will eventually become law but this will take a long time as it will have various amendments added and subsequent readings in the commons before it ever goes to the Lords where the same process could also apply .

So yes it will become law in some form at some point but David Cameron has reaped the initial benefit increasing his overall popularity to the countries electorate.

Job done one might say.....!!!

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

So yes it will become law in some form at some point but David Cameron has reaped the initial benefit increasing his overall popularity to the countries electorate.

Not really :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21339877

Anthony Wells, YouGov associate director

However much attention it is getting in the media at the moment, gay marriage is not the sort of issue that will have a big impact on people's votes come the general election when, as usual, people's votes will be decided upon the bigger issues.

Polls claiming to show that it will change a large number of votes are because the question asked singles out just that one issue. By May 2015, (when the election is due) gay marriage will have been on the statute book for two years and will be broadly accepted. More importantly, it will fade to insignificance next to bigger issues like the economy, health, crime and the merits of the party leaders.

Our most recent polling shows only 7% of people say that gay marriage would be an important issue in deciding their vote, and they are evenly split between people who support and oppose the issue.

The more important impact will be on how the Conservative party is perceived: in or out of touch, modern or stuck in the past, or - as our present polling and today's vote suggests - just hopelessly divided.

[Omah]

Fewer heterosexual couples are getting married :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#axzz2K2j76vX1

The number of people marrying has hit a historic new low, official figures have revealed.

They show that women are now three times less likely to get married than were their mothers' generation.

Fewer than one in 50 women in England and Wales went through a wedding in 2008.

The figures from the Office for National Statistics showed 232,990 weddings, the fewest in a year since 1895, when the population was just 30million against around 51million now.

The marriage rate - the proportion of the single population who married - was the lowest in a non-war year since records began in 1862.

The figures were 19.6 per 1,000 single, divorced or married woman and 21.8 per 1,000 men.

More heterosexual couples are getting divorced :

•The number of divorces in England and Wales in 2010 was 119,589, an increase of 4.9 per cent since 2009, when there were 113,949 divorces
•The divorce rate rose in 2010 to 11.1 divorcing people per thousand married population from 10.5 in 2009
•22 per cent of marriages in 1970 had ended in divorce by the 15th wedding anniversary, whereas 33 per cent of marriages in 1995 had ended after the same period of time
•The number of divorces in 2010 was highest among men and women aged 40 to 44

Marriage may be important to those who can't get married but its increasingly less so for others.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Omah

Not really :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21339877

Anthony Wells, YouGov associate director

Although the same sex marriage Bill did not go down well with all Conservative MP's and yes there may be some disunity for a period , the real aim of this Bill and the timing of it was to enhance Mr Cameron's standing to the wider voting public because in the next election it will come down to a straight fight between Ed Miliband and David Cameron in a sort of Presidential election. It is this battle that David Cameron is looking to win and by being a popular PM to the wider electorate by granting Bills like same sex marriage and a referendum on Europe this is his strategy to win a second term in office ( but a first term in a Conservative only Govt) ...!!!

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Although the same sex marriage Bill did not go down well with all Conservative MP's and yes there may be some disunity for a period , the real aim of this Bill and the timing of it was to enhance Mr Cameron's standing to the wider voting public because in the next election it will come down to a straight fight between Ed Miliband and David Cameron in a sort of Presidential election. It is this battle that David Cameron is looking to win and by being a popular PM to the wider electorate by granting Bills like same sex marriage and a referendum on Europe this is his strategy to win a second term in office ( but a first term in a Conservative only Govt) ...!!!

That's different to what you stated in your previous post (the effect has been achive) but it's what I agree with - Cameron has forgone his manifesto promises and ignored the mandate given by the electorate in order to popularise his party amongst gullible punters while in the pursuit of personal power and the enrichment of the "ruling" (i.e. monied) elite.

Whether that plan works or not .....

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I think like the Bill on Fox hunting this Bill on same sex marriage will eventually become law but this will take a long time as it will have various amendments added and subsequent readings in the commons before it ever goes to the Lords where the same process could also apply .

So yes it will become law in some form at some point but David Cameron has reaped the initial benefit increasing his overall popularity to the countries electorate.

Job done one might say.....!!!

I cannot see a bounce coming for the Conservatives on this one, had he been able to carry the bulk of his MPs on this issue then definitely he would have likely reaped some extra support from the voters.
However what this has done despite the gentle disagreements as to this bill from the Conservatives,has shown a divided party.

The voters don't like divided parties.
Although this was A freevote in the commons last night, it has in fact only got through thanks to Labour and the Lib dems,had those 2 parties been badly divided by this bill then it would have been lost.

175 votes were cast against this bill and 136 of those votes came from the Conservative party,that is actually 10 more than supported the bill.
So I cannot see the Conservative party reaping any great support from the voters as to this one although I do agree David Cameron's standing will likely have risen with them and so it should,he made a brave decision in going ahead on this issue in my opinion.

[Kizzy]

Due to the weight of public opinion what choice did he have?

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Due to the weight of public opinion what choice did he have?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I think like the Bill on Fox hunting this Bill on same sex marriage will eventually become law but this will take a long time as it will have various amendments added and subsequent readings in the commons before it ever goes to the Lords where the same process could also apply .

So yes it will become law in some form at some point but David Cameron has reaped the initial benefit increasing his overall popularity to the countries electorate.

Job done one might say.....!!!

This issue has caused more members to leave the Conservative Party than any other single issue in years. If David Cameron made this into an issue to make himself more popular with the electorate, he's done it at the expense of a lot of his core voters. Gay marriage wasn't in the manifesto... it wasn't in any party's manifesto, and personally I think it was a smoke-screen to deflect attention from the other countless issues that are going against the Tories at the moment. I'm not saying I'm against gay marriage or that it's a bad thing, only that this is going to cost the Conservatives dear at the next election and probably the party who will benefit will be UKIP.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Meant to quote joey, I assume that is all that is confusing you?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Livia

This issue has caused more members to leave the Conservative Party than any other single issue in years. If David Cameron made this into an issue to make himself more popular with the electorate, he's done it at the expense of a lot of his core voters. Gay marriage wasn't in the manifesto... it wasn't in any party's manifesto, and personally I think it was a smoke-screen to deflect attention from the other countless issues that are going against the Tories at the moment. I'm not saying I'm against gay marriage or that it's a bad thing, only that this is going to cost the Conservatives dear at the next election and probably the party who will benefit will be UKIP.

Yes I agree he has suffered slightly more than he would have expected, he probably thought he would have more Tory MP's voting for the Bill than was the case. However I still maintain he will weather the storm within his own party and as they say time is a great healer. The vast majority of people in this country will applaud David Cameron for the personal risk he took to his political career and reputation in order to push through such a much needed and much overdue change to our laws. This is what voters will remember in two years time and although I do think UKIP will take an increased share of the vote I think the main battle will be between Miliband and Cameron and I think Cameron will have the edge entirely because of bills like this one and the offer of a referendum on Europe. People see him as a politician with a conscience and not just a figurehead at the top of the Tory machine.