Originally Posted by lostalex

As far as religion being a "personal thing" i wish it was, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Every religion in the world actively tries to convert new members, and every religious person i've ever met has told me that religion is not just about their own personal beliefs about God, but that actually religion is about every aspect of their life, and that it is a guide for how human beings should live their lives. That makes religions political, not just personal. I can't name a religion that isn't political.

Judaism doesn't try to convert people.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Judaism doesn't try to convert people.

There are lots of people who have to convert to marry a jewish person.

Originally Posted by lostalex

There are lots of people who have to convert to marry a jewish person.

I'm an anti-theist so I don't care for any religion at all, but Judaism is more cultural than religious these days.

I take your point about conversion for marriage, but are these people then expected to proselytize and convert others?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I'm an anti-theist so I don't care for any religion at all, but Judaism is more cultural than religious these days.

I take your point about conversion for marriage, but are these people then expected to proselytize and convert others?

Well they would be expected to proselytize their children, does that count?

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well they would be expected to proselytize their children, does that count?

Parents teach their their children all kinds of wacky beliefs. I don't agree with it, but Judaism isn't a religion with aims of increasing in power or size. It's not in the same league as the other 2 Abrahamic religions.

I doubt anyone converting in order to marry another person is actually going to become devout enough to proselytize to anyone.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

There are lots of people who have to convert to marry a jewish person.

Judaism accepts converts, but do not recruit. My husband wasn't Jewish, he did not convert and so we couldn't marry in the synagogue, but he was still accepted by every Jewish person I know. My parents gave me every opportunity to opt out. I guess all decent parents would. Orthodox Jews are another matter entirely, like you said... but don't you find that all religious people who tend to suffer from their faith, end up being a little... wacky?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

Judaism accepts converts, but do not recruit. My husband wasn't Jewish, he did not convert and so we couldn't marry in the synagogue, but he was still accepted by every Jewish person I know. My parents gave me every opportunity to opt out. I guess all decent parents would. Orthodox Jews are another matter entirely, like you said... but don't you find that all religious people who tend to suffer from their faith, end up being a little... wacky?

I agree that most religious people would be just as happy being christian, or muslim or jewish, they just enjoy sharing traditions with their loved ones. Like I said before, most religious people really arn't very religious. Most religious people are not intellectually or spiritually invested in their own religion. Most have never read their own religious texts, or put much thought into the darker sides of their religion.

When i talk about "religious people" i'm really talking about that 10% of each religion that are the fanatics, and actually believe in the dogma.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I agree that most religious people would be just as happy being christian, or muslim or jewish, they just enjoy sharing traditions with their loved ones. Like I said before, most religious people really arn't very religious.

Thats not what I said though. I am not a Christian or a Muslim. I am a Jew. I'm not sure most Jews would be happy being Muslim or Christian. And I'm pretty sure no Muslim is going to be happy being a Christian or even less likely, a Jew. I'm happy for people to follow whichever faith they choose, but that doesn't mean I would give up my own faith for theirs. I don't think you can grade people's religiousness, and I'm certain you can't grade mine. That's like saying, most gay people aren't really that gay. It's a little... insulting.