[fruit_cake]

Black is a race as far as I'm aware. The correct terminology is 'negroid' and for white persons it's 'caucasoid' unless I'm very much mistaken.

[MatthewS]

Yeah, but in the context of the conversation, she wasn't speaking of race. She was speaking on the skin tone she finds herself usually dating. That skin tone happens to be dark, but not black. Referring to the colour, not whether or not she would ever fancy someone of that specific race. Their is a difference....

The only reason that entire conversation turned 'racial' is because Gina wanted it to...

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

[fruit_cake]

If someone says 'black man' to me, I'm thinking of the race, not the colour in general, I think most people would be too

[Johnnyuk123]

I'm still offended that there are no orange people in the house.

[MatthewS]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

If someone says 'black man' to me, I'm thinking of the race, not the colour in general, I think most people would be too

I fully agree, but in the specific context of this situation....

And she didn't say "black man", she said she usually goes for 'dark skinned', like 'Mediterranean', not 'black'. As if she's automatically a racist for having a preference lol

[sampvt]

Just so you know, Black men are generally brown, Chinese are not yellow they are flesh coloured and Asians can be anything from white to light brown.

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

I'm still offended that there are no orange people in the house.

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Just so you know, Black men are generally brown, Chinese are not yellow they are flesh coloured and Asians can be anything from white to light brown.

yes that's what I was thinking, when somebody says 'black' they mean the race, because the colour as you say there, is not black at all

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

She clearly stated she liked mixed guys. Daley is mixed race.
She is not attracted to every Blackman on earth and assumed Gina would feel the same about every single last white man ever.

[MatthewS]

lolz

I didn't even know Daley was mixed race. I am clearly a massive racist.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by sampvt

No need to drive a bus now, you are doing a great job of rubbishing your own argument. Why don't you just come out and say its illegal to say you don't like someone, forgive me but I thought that fell under personal preference which the last time I looked, was a perfectly legal and not at all racist.

This argument you are pitching is about as believable as Rylan getting an award for looking like last years Derby winner.

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.

[MatthewS]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.

She's talking about what skin tone she usually finds herself dating man, not which 'race' she prefers. and even if she 'prefers' to date white guys exclusively, being a racist is the act of HATING a particular race, not whether you fancy them romantically, or not.

not usually dating or not finding a race attractive ≠ hate

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.

Why is it the worse thing you can call something racist is "racist"?
Best post I've read today.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

Yeah, but in the context of the conversation, she wasn't speaking of race. She was speaking on the skin tone she finds herself usually dating. That skin tone happens to be dark, but not black. Referring to the colour, not whether or not she would ever fancy someone of that specific race. Their is a difference....

The only reason that entire conversation turned 'racial' is because Gina wanted it to...

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

EXACTLY

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

She's talking about what skin tone she usually finds herself dating man, not which 'race' she prefers. and even if she 'prefers' to date white guys exclusively, being a racist is the act of HATING a particular race, not whether you fancy them romantically, or not.

not usually dating or not finding a race attractive ≠ hate

Being racist is not the act of hating a race. Oxford English Dictionary states Definition of racism
noun
[mass noun]
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Hence she is racist, as is the person who says that black people are fast or asians can do math. Your personal interpretation of a term does not invalidate its proper use by others. I do understand that you don't believe she hates black people, but I do believe she is prone to hurtful generalisations which she feels are permissable because she has "ethnic friends".

[MatthewS]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

Being racist is not the act of hating a race. Oxford English Dictionary states Definition of racism
noun
[mass noun]
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Hence she is racist

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Their are numerous definitions for racism btw, it's a controversial term and you won't find one 'right' answer. It's also extremely context dependent. Maybe Jemima is a racist, who knows, I'm just saying that in this particular system 1) race wasn't the basis of her comments and 2) she's allowed to have a physical preference as to what she's attracted to. I've never dated an aboriginal girl in my life. If someone asked me what 'type' I usually date, and I was stupid enough to reply "dark skinned, but not aboriginal", would I be a racist?

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Daley isn't black. He's mixed race. A white mother and a Nigerian father. What's with the dismissal of his white heritage?

[Bluerang1]

The title is said in a racist manner. Jemima said it in not a racist manner.

Gosh, that was terrible English.

[MatthewS]

Originally Posted by cassieparis

Daley isn't black. He's mixed race. A white mother and a Nigerian father. What's with the dismissal of his white heritage?

I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and I forgot. It wasn't intentional. Do we really need to play the PC card and assume I was trying to dismiss "his white heritage"? Sorry for not thoroughly vetting his bio before posting. Perhaps a formal warning should be issued to me as I am clearly a gigantic racist.

[Vicky.]

I actually thought Daley was black too..

I dont see why it matters though really.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

Yeah, but in the context of the conversation, she wasn't speaking of race. She was speaking on the skin tone she finds herself usually dating. That skin tone happens to be dark, but not black. Referring to the colour, not whether or not she would ever fancy someone of that specific race. Their is a difference....

The only reason that entire conversation turned 'racial' is because Gina wanted it to...

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

She actually said 'I like mixed race, like Daley I like him'

Whether he is or not I dont know, but that was her reasoning. Anyway people are missing the point. No it wasn't overt racism, but it was the sort of subtle racism that makes me cringe a bit when I hear it. Not so much her first conversation, but tbf to Gina she didn't make a big deal of it and addressed Jemima quite pleasantly at first.

But rather than just saying 'Yeah I see how you might find that offensive, Im sorry it wasn't my intention' she compounded the issue by going on about how she 'doesnt like Chinese either' and telling Gina 'well you probably dont date white guys' and it was that last comment for me that made it not acceptable.

I get she isn't some raging EDL member, and it probably came out wrong but its national TV. I mean I personally don't find Asian girls attractive as a rule, but if I was having a conversation in a room with an Asian guy sat who I barely knew I be very careful how I discussed it.

[MatthewS]

But can't we just deem it an 'offensive' remark and something stupid to have said in hindsight, especially given the context that it's on national television - without having to automatically slap the racist card on her? Sure, maybe subliminally something else is going on and she actually is a racist, but until she actually make comments that specifically reveal she views other races as inferior, we're assuming.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

But can't we just deem it an 'offensive' remark and something stupid to have said in hindsight, especially given the context that it's on national television - without having to automatically slap the racist card on her? Sure, maybe subliminally something else is going on and she actually is a racist, but until she actually make comments that specifically reveal she views other races as inferior, we're assuming.

Tbf her warning was for potentially offensive language, not racism.

It was only Gina who cried racism immediately. Even before anything even slightly dodgy was said.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Their are numerous definitions for racism btw, it's a controversial term and you won't find one 'right' answer. It's also extremely context dependent. Maybe Jemima is a racist, who knows, I'm just saying that in this particular system 1) race wasn't the basis of her comments and 2) she's allowed to have a physical preference as to what she's attracted to. I've never dated an aboriginal girl in my life. If someone asked me what 'type' I usually date, and I was stupid enough to reply "dark skinned, but not aboriginal", would I be a racist?

I employ dark skinned guys, not black guys.
I'm friends with dark-skinned guys, not black guys.
I like dark skinned guys, not black guys.


What is the real difference between any of the above statements and the issue of dating? None. If someone won't date short/tall people, they are discriminating according to height. Fact. This may deprive them of a positive relationship in the future which is their loss, but so be it, and they may accept this. Discrimination based on race shouldn't be renamed because it makes people uneasy. It is racism. You yourself defined the response "dark skinned but not aboriginal" as stupid. Why is this? People can be racist without intending malice, but these prejudices can never be addressed until they are highlighted. The argument that she would date the mixed-race contestant Daley, is akin to the racist saying, "them others can go back where they came from but you're alright cos we've got the same accent".
The situation is overplayed as I doubt there will be many black men crying themselves to sleep at the lost chance to marry Jemima, but her statement in itself is discriminatory.