[Withano]

https://www.allout.org/en/actions/russia-attacks

[Shaun]

Signed that a while back, (or something similar asking major commercial companies to withdraw sponsorship) but bumping this because Stephen Fry's written a rather wonderful piece on the subject in an open letter to David Cameron.

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2...inter-olympics

Dear Prime Minister, M Rogge, Lord Coe and Members of the International Olympic Committee,

I write in the earnest hope that all those with a love of sport and the Olympic spirit will consider the stain on the Five Rings that occurred when the 1936 Berlin Olympics proceeded under the exultant aegis of a tyrant who had passed into law, two years earlier, an act which singled out for special persecution a minority whose only crime was the accident of their birth. In his case he banned Jews from academic tenure or public office, he made sure that the police turned a blind eye to any beatings, thefts or humiliations afflicted on them, he burned and banned books written by them. He claimed they "polluted" the purity and tradition of what it was to be German, that they were a threat to the state, to the children and the future of the Reich. He blamed them simultaneously for the mutually exclusive crimes of Communism and for the controlling of international capital and banks. He blamed them for ruining the culture with their liberalism and difference. The Olympic movement at that time paid precisely no attention to this evil and proceeded with the notorious Berlin Olympiad, which provided a stage for a gleeful Führer and only increased his status at home and abroad. It gave him confidence. All historians are agreed on that. What he did with that confidence we all know.

Putin is eerily repeating this insane crime, only this time against LGBT Russians. Beatings, murders and humiliations are ignored by the police. Any defence or sane discussion of homosexuality is against the law. Any statement, for example, that Tchaikovsky was gay and that his art and life reflects this sexuality and are an inspiration to other gay artists would be punishable by imprisonment. It is simply not enough to say that gay Olympians may or may not be safe in their village. The IOC absolutely must take a firm stance on behalf of the shared humanity it is supposed to represent against the barbaric, fascist law that Putin has pushed through the Duma. Let us not forget that Olympic events used not only to be athletic, they used to include cultural competitions. Let us realise that in fact, sport is cultural. It does not exist in a bubble outside society or politics. The idea that sport and politics don't connect is worse than disingenuous, worse than stupid. It is wickedly, wilfully wrong. Everyone knows politics interconnects with everything for "politics" is simply the Greek for "to do with the people".

An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 on Sochi is simply essential. Stage them elsewhere in Utah, Lillyhammer, anywhere you like. At all costs Putin cannot be seen to have the approval of the civilised world.

He is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews. He cannot be allowed to get away with it. I know whereof I speak. I have visited Russia, stood up to the political deputy who introduced the first of these laws, in his city of St Petersburg. I looked into the face of the man and, on camera, tried to reason with him, counter him, make him understand what he was doing. All I saw reflected back at me was what Hannah Arendt called, so memorably, "the banality of evil." A stupid man, but like so many tyrants, one with an instinct of how to exploit a disaffected people by finding scapegoats. Putin may not be quite as oafish and stupid as Deputy Milanov but his instincts are the same. He may claim that the "values" of Russia are not the "values" of the West, but this is absolutely in opposition to Peter the Great's philosophy, and against the hopes of millions of Russians, those not in the grip of that toxic mix of shaven headed thuggery and bigoted religion, those who are agonised by the rolling back of democracy and the formation of a new autocracy in the motherland that has suffered so much (and whose music, literature and drama, incidentally I love so passionately).

I am gay. I am a Jew. My mother lost over a dozen of her family to Hitler's anti-Semitism. Every time in Russia (and it is constantly) a gay teenager is forced into suicide, a lesbian "correctively" raped, gay men and women beaten to death by neo-Nazi thugs while the Russian police stand idly by, the world is diminished and I for one, weep anew at seeing history repeat itself.

"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing," so wrote Edmund Burke. Are you, the men and women of the IOC going to be those "good" who allow evil to triumph?

The Summer Olympics of 2012 were one of the most glorious moments of my life and the life of my country. For there to be a Russian Winter Olympics would stain the movement forever and wipe away any of that glory. The Five Rings would finally be forever smeared, besmirched and ruined in the eyes of the civilised world.

I am begging you to resist the pressures of pragmatism, of money, of the oily cowardice of diplomats and to stand up resolutely and proudly for humanity the world over, as your movement is pledged to do. Wave your Olympic flag with pride as we gay men and women wave our Rainbow flag with pride. Be brave enough to live up to the oaths and protocols of your movement, which I remind you of verbatim below.

Rule four: Cooperate with the competent public or private organisations and authorities in the endeavour to place sport at the service of humanity and thereby to promote peace.

Rule six: Act against any form of discrimination affecting the Olympic Movement.

Rule 15: Encourage and support initiatives blending sport with culture and education.

I especially appeal to you, Prime Minister, a man for whom I have the utmost respect. As the leader of a party I have for almost all of my life opposed and instinctively disliked, you showed a determined, passionate and clearly honest commitment to LGBT rights and helped push gay marriage through both houses of our parliament in the teeth of vehement opposition from so many of your own side. For that I will always admire you, whatever other differences may lie between us. In the end I believe you know when a thing is wrong or right. Please act on that instinct now.

Yours in desperate hope for humanity

Stephen Fry

Quoting from Huffington Post because his website is crashing often today due to the traffic.

[Z]

Stephen Fry's letter was excellent, made me have more of an opinion than I'd previously had towards Russia's homophobia (probably because I've studied it extensively at uni ) - it is outrageous and something does need to be done... but I'm not sure people protesting in this country is going to do anything.

[Kyle]

And to think Fifa is giving that country the World Cup too. Scandalous.

[Shaun]

The prime minister has rejected a call from broadcaster Stephen Fry to strip Russia of the 2014 Winter Olympics because of its new anti-gay laws.

In an open letter on his website Fry said Russia was "making scapegoats of gay people".

David Cameron said he shared his "deep concern about the abuse of gay people in Russia", but did not back a boycott.

Fry later acknowledged the Games would go ahead in Russia, but suggested athletes could hold symbolic protests.

A Russian law, passed in June, prescribes heavy fines for anyone providing information about homosexuality to people under 18 - but Moscow denies it is discriminatory.

Fry was among several hundred people who gathered in Westminster to demonstrate the against the law.

He was among those calling for the Games to be moved to a different country, but others at the protest were urging athletes to refuse to attend.

Speaking to the BBC, Fry said it was "probably not realistic to call for a move or a boycott at this stage in terms of it achieving its objective".

He added: "But I think it is realistic to call for it and to create moments like this where people think really hard."

Fry called on athletes attending and make a symbolic protest, suggesting it could be a gesture such as crossing their hands in front of their chest, which he went on to demonstrate.

He said: "It's inevitable it will happen, but I hope people will agree with me that all our athletes and all the athletes in the Games should find a symbol whether during the performance of their piece or at the end of it.... and definitely on the medal podium."

Fry said he hoped such a move would "show solidarity, to take some of sweetness of victory out of [Russian president Vladimir] Putin's mouth to show they are thinking of the gay people of Russia who are being tormented and brutalised every day - and indeed are committing suicide more and more".

In his letter, which was published on Wednesday, Mr Fry compared the situation to the decision to hold the 1936 games in Nazi Germany.

It was addressed to Mr Cameron, International Olympics Committee (IOC) President Jacques Rogge and British Olympic Association chairman Lord Coe.

Fry wrote of Russia: "Beatings, murders and humiliations are ignored by the police. Any defence or sane discussion of homosexuality is against the law."

"It is simply not enough to say that gay Olympians may or may not be safe in their village. An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 is simply essential," he also said.

"Stage them elsewhere in Utah, Lillyhammer [sic], anywhere you like. At all costs Putin cannot be seen to have the approval of the civilised world."

He urged Mr Rogge and his fellow committee members to "take a firm stance on behalf of the shared humanity it is supposed to represent".

Writing on Twitter, Mr Cameron said that while he did not support a boycott, "I believe we can better challenge prejudice as we attend, rather than boycotting the Winter Olympics".

In a response to the prime minister's comments, Fry later tweeted: "PM, you may be right. Would that have been true in 1936? But is there nothing we can DO? Putin grows and grows in confidence".

Meanwhile, Lord Coe spoke about the issue while attending the World Athletics Championships at Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium - the scene of his win in the 1,500 metres at a 1980 summer Olympics boycotted by the US over Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.

Lord Coe said the issue of gay rights in Russia "needs to be addressed" but said he was "against boycotts".

"They only damage one group of people and that is the athletes," he said.

"I believe that coming to Moscow in 1980 was the right thing... International sport is not an inhibitor of social change, it actually has quite strong catalytic effects."

Mr Rogge said he had asked Russia to explain how its new law might affect the Games.

He said Russia's written reassurances over the Winter Olympics needed clarification.

"We are not clear about the English translation of the Russian law and we want clarification of this translation to be able to understand what has been communicated to us," Mr Rogge said.

He stressed that, under the Olympic charter, sport was a "human right and should be available to all regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation".

A press release on the website of Russia's UK embassy says "any form of discrimination" is prohibited under the Russian constitution.

It says reports of a "wide-scale violence campaign against LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender] activists after the adoption of the new law is simply not true".

"Russia will welcome all sportsmen and guests of Sochi Olympics regardless of their sexual orientation," it adds.

"At the same time, we hope that our foreign guests will respect the laws of the host-country according to the basic principle of the Olympic movement (the Russian legislation prohibits only LGBT propaganda among children)."

Former Kremlin adviser Alexander Nekrassov told BBC Breakfast the new law was designed to protect children against all forms of sexualisation.

He said Fry's comparison of Russia with Nazi Germany was "over the top" and "went against" the interests of the gay community.

How courageous, Mr. Cameron. Then again, what are human rights when there's a Winter Olympics on?

[arista]

Fry is being silly
the location is a signed up deal.
No way out.

I think Fry needs security now even in London
as he may be on a Hit List


He is starting to create trouble with Russia.

He has done enough
nothing is going to change.


Sign Of The Times.

[LikeABoatOnWater]

I wish people would stop trying to politicise the Olympics (and sport in general), I thought we learned 30 years ago that these tactics lead nowhere.
The militant gays need to pipe down and stop giving us normal homosexuals a bad name.

[arista]

Originally Posted by LikeABoatOnWater

I wish people would stop trying to politicise the Olympics (and sport in general), I thought we learned 30 years ago that these tactics lead nowhere.
The militant gays need to pipe down and stop giving us normal homosexuals a bad name.

Yes its going to end badly

[Novo]

It's amazing how Putin basically has Cameron and Obama in his pocket, no one will dare to fully stand up to him

[Roy Mars III]

because Putin is about 10 times smarter when it comes to international diplomacy than those two clowns

[arista]

Originally Posted by Novo

It's amazing how Putin basically has Cameron and Obama in his pocket, no one will dare to fully stand up to him

They can not
he has Supply of Gas.


And America stopped the Putin meeting
so Putin does not have them in his pocket.

[Tregard]

Originally Posted by LikeABoatOnWater

The militant gays need to pipe down and stop giving us normal homosexuals a bad name.

Your orientation has nothing to do with it, it's simply basic human decency to be disgusted by the things that are happening to homosexuals in Russia. Some of the stuff I heard is probably even too graphic to describe here, but many are being "cleansed" by having urine poured over them and being forced to drink it. All before and after being beaten with sticks by Neo-nazis while the police do nothing. Neighbours, after being alerted of the beatings, will join in.

How is it that a nation where this sort of thing is condoned can host many major world event and be considered a powerful and modern nation is beyond me. Putin is disgraceful.

[RichardG]

Not intending to derail the thread (didn't know whether to make a new one for this or not ), but I recently read an article online following on from this Russia/Olympics controversy detailing 76 other countries whose anti-gay laws are even worse than those in Russia. Not very nice stuff.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/saeedjones/7...-or-worse-than

Some of the most shocking:
6. Barbados — Up to life in prison
24. Iran — Death penalty
34. Mauritania — Death penalty by public stoning
40. Nauru — Hard labor up to 14 years.

[lippyzippy]

do these crazy laws apply equally to gay men and lesbian women? theres a lot about buggery and sodomy for example but not much describing lesbian acts

I honestly didn't realise anal sex was punishable by death in iran....that's just staggering

what is the main reason they come to that conclusion? is it purely their interpretation of the Koran ? or are they worried it may spread disease or that the population will fall or what?

[Z]

They won't do anything to upset Russia because Russia's got a vice grip around all our collective balls, it's in full control of a potential energy war and it would be unwise to become Russia's enemy. I know that doesn't excuse what is happening in Russian territory but the simple fact of the matter is that even if Putin changed his laws, it's not going to change the attitudes of the majority of Russian people. Homosexuality is reviled in Russia - always has been, perhaps it always will be.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Zee

They won't do anything to upset Russia because Russia's got a vice grip around all our collective balls, it's in full control of a potential energy war and it would be unwise to become Russia's enemy. I know that doesn't excuse what is happening in Russian territory but the simple fact of the matter is that even if Putin changed his laws, it's not going to change the attitudes of the majority of Russian people. Homosexuality is reviled in Russia - always has been, perhaps it always will be.

Good Post........yes I think you may have hit on the unpalatable truth, Putin knows the Russian peoples attitudes and LGB practices are not generally welcomed. He knows there is a tide of western liberalism sweeping across most of the developed World and maybe he is saying NOT here....perhaps he is correctly reading the mood of the vast majority of the Russian population.

Maybe the Russian public need more time to progress before they are ready to accept reforms of this nature.

I think Obama did make a really good point about allowing "the gays" to go and win some medals. You'll never change anyone's opinion by censoring it.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I think Obama did make a really good point about allowing "the gays" to go and win some medals. You'll never change anyone's opinion by censoring it.

Nor can you force people to change their opinions on things by introducing legislation designed to forcibly remove opposition to practices that may still seem abnormal to large numbers of people....!!!!

[Z]

And the only way to normalise something abnormal is to expose people to it in positive ways instead of forcing propaganda down people's throats. If people fundamentally hate gays, then the only way to start to ease that attitude is to get them to like people for their achievements, who happen to be gay. The Olympics is one such example. You could find yourself supporting an extremely talented athlete and then later discover that they are gay. Their sexuality didn't hinder or help their abilities, they are just simply a great athlete. Hiding it away is doing nothing and protest marches just aggravate people who already hate them and push away people who are indifferent to them. I don't support gay pride marches for this reason. I think it alienates people, I don't think it causes greater appreciation or understanding - marches hold up traffic and are a nuisance. Doesn't matter what they're marching for, it's annoying. People associate things as being annoying accordingly. Positive exposure is needed to overcome a negative attitude.

Originally Posted by Zee

And the only way to normalise something abnormal is to expose people to it in positive ways instead of forcing propaganda down people's throats. If people fundamentally hate gays, then the only way to start to ease that attitude is to get them to like people for their achievements, who happen to be gay. The Olympics is one such example. You could find yourself supporting an extremely talented athlete and then later discover that they are gay. Their sexuality didn't hinder or help their abilities, they are just simply a great athlete. Hiding it away is doing nothing and protest marches just aggravate people who already hate them and push away people who are indifferent to them. I don't support gay pride marches for this reason. I think it alienates people, I don't think it causes greater appreciation or understanding - marches hold up traffic and are a nuisance. Doesn't matter what they're marching for, it's annoying. People associate things as being annoying accordingly. Positive exposure is needed to overcome a negative attitude.

I bet the gays love doing the pole vault.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I bet the gays love doing the pole vault.

The breast stroke, not so much.

Originally Posted by Zee

The breast stroke, not so much.

But they love relay - sharing one baton between 4 of them.