[Josy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yes the clear and indisputable fact that men are encouraged and generally not condemned for celebrating their sexuality openly is certainly just me exaggerating. Of course it is. Like I said when these attitudes come from men it's just plain misogyny but when they come from women themselves it's just downright depressing.

And um she was, because when questioning Dappy on whether he'd let someone finger him, she made references to the fact that she would 'do it to him' and he would love it, and that she does it to guys herself. So yes, she was expressing her sexuality. Oh and not only that but she was imitating sex on top of Sam in the bedroom.

We werent discussing Sam and Jasmine in the bedroom in here though were were talking about what she said infront of Lionel and his reaction.

So yeah I do think you were over reacting to come into the thread and start going on about sexuality, feminism etc you went off on a tangent that had practically nothing to do with the discussion..

Her getting her boobs out or carrying on with Sam in the bedroom doesnt bother me one bit, I still think what she was sat saying in the garden is out of order and would think the same no matter if it was a male or female that said it.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Josy

We werent discussing Sam and Jasmine in the bedroom in here though were were talking about what she said infront of Lionel and his reaction.

So yeah I do think you were over reacting to come into the thread and start going on about sexuality, feminism etc you went off on a tangent that had practically nothing to do with the discussion..

Her getting her boobs out or carrying on with Sam in the bedroom doesnt bother me one bit, I still think what she was sat saying in the garden is out of order and would think the same no matter if it was a male or female that said it.

Well there's certainly been some on here tonight who have criticised the way she acted in the bedroom so...

But regardless, I've just explained how that conversation was her expressing her sexuality. What else was it? She was instigating a conversation about hers and Dappy's sexual likes and dislikes. How is that anything other than expressing your sexuality?

And it has everything to do with the discussion because whether or not there are some like you that wouldn't have liked the topic of conversation regardless of gender (that's better than having a double standards approach admittedly but I would argue such open attitudes and expression towards sex and sexuality is actually natural and healthy to society and it should be encouraged, but that's a different debate altogether), in society generally the belief that women should remain 'lady like' (lol what a indefinable concept anyway) and not engage in such conversations is a prevalent one, all whilst men are on the whole actively encouraged and allowed to talk openly about their sexual fantasies because that's all part of being a 'lad'.

The point I am making is that whilst you or a few others may dislike that kind of conversation regardless of whether the instigator is male or female, the general attitudes towards this in society are wildly sexist and involve everything I've explained so far in this thread. And as such, condemning a female for partaking in such behaviour on a TV show is actually contributing to this divide because it's only seeking to continue the same gender splits. You might not think it is but on a wider scale it just does, the more these opinions are thrown about the more it continues to be normal to criticise a woman for this behaviour but it's not so much important if a man does it. It might be still be to you as you've said but generally speaking it isn't as condemned and surely you must at least be able to admit that?

[Kizzy]

I thought it was funny seeing dappy and co squirm when she was discussing it, she and louisa are going to clash as they are both very very sexually aggressive women.

[Jack_]

I will repeat though, I can understand people's issues with her conversing like that in front of Lionel (not in general though there's no issue), there are potentially issues of disrespect there (or perhaps it's just more a bit bizarre), but she was completely off her face - I'm not surprised she had no filter to be quite honest.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I will repeat though, I can understand people's issues with her conversing like that in front of Lionel (not in general though there's no issue), there are potentially issues of disrespect there (or perhaps it's just more a bit bizarre), but she was completely off her face - I'm not surprised she had no filter to be quite honest.

Jack, can you please shorten your posts and try not to use psycho babble because after reading your submissions several times, I get the feeling that you are forcing a point you know very little about and it has little or no relevance to anything in this thread.

Why don't you open a new thread and post your feelings there. Ive lost the plot on this thread now. Lionel is an 82 yr old man that has Victorian views of sex and life, he has a right to be bemused or upset but what you are trying to do is make him out to be some kind of Neanderthal moron and your views as a youngster are fraught with life experiences when you are so young and seemingly very bitter regarding views that don't gel with yours.

[smeagol]

i like her dont care attitude she reminds me of me. is that the jasmine who done that sex tape?
lional is just being precious. he wants to be hip but he picks his morals when he wishes.
sad

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Jack, can you please shorten your posts and try not to use psycho babble because after reading your submissions several times, I get the feeling that you are forcing a point you know very little about and it has little or no relevance to anything in this thread.

Why don't you open a new thread and post your feelings there. Ive lost the plot on this thread now. Lionel is an 82 yr old man that has Victorian views of sex and life, he has a right to be bemused or upset but what you are trying to do is make him out to be some kind of Neanderthal moron and your views as a youngster are fraught with life experiences when you are so young and seemingly very bitter regarding views that don't gel with yours.

What the actual ******? I've made two clear references in this thread to the fact that I can understand why people would think her conversing in such a manner in front of Lionel would be unacceptable. Have you actually read the thread through or are you just trying to throw some more unnecessary digs at me?

I have made it perfectly clear that I think having such a conversation in front of an 80 year old man brings up issues of disrespect, so if anything I've actually taken Lionel's views and beliefs into consideration here, where on earth have I made him out to be or suggested that he is 'some kind of Neanderthal moron'? That's grossly untrue and actually quite unfair, I've done nothing of the sort in this thread. Other people perhaps, but certainly not me. Surely other people can vouch for me on that also?

Like seriously, stop trying to insult me at every available opportunity, especially when I haven't even done anything you're accusing me of. What is your problem?

[Kizzy]

I disagreed with my daughter on this, I don't feel she should modify her behaviour for lionel, he is a person to treat him any differently than you would anyone else is wrong as far as I see it.
He is old yes but I think it would be discriminatory and rather patronising to single him out due to this during a group conversation.
He may have looked shocked... they all did to be fair

[Ammi]

..if she had modifies her behaviour, then she would be called 'false' and she was drunk and uninhibited anyway..and as much as I've always liked Lionel, it's ok for him to accept the money etc to go into CBB but then if he's going to do that then he has to accept what that means and there is often 'controversial' behaviour...I don't think that respect is anything to do with age either..why should she respect him any more than she would any of the other housemates, she doesn't know him at all..anyway, it's all providing what BB aim for because that's why they put such mixed age range housemates in....

[Ammi]

..I was trying to think of an analogy..(other than the Sam one which has been mentioned..)...and the only thing I could think of wasn't on BB but for myself when I first joined the forum and the respect that is felt that Jasmine should have showed Lionel..that would be like me saying...'excuse me, I'm here now, you can cut that out and stop any crude talk because I find it disrespectful...'..what would give me the right to say that or expect it of anyone....I know this is on National TV but that's really only Jasmine's concern and how the general public will judge her for it but there have been far more offensive things to me on BB than crude talk and crude talk doesn't mean she lacks morals or is a bad person at all, it runs far deeper than that....and respect is for yourself really....

[newsbb]

hes an absolute bore, thats why old people should be allowed!

[mizzy25]

I do think she was pissed but not as pissed as she was making out she was, the comments about the finger banging were uncalled for regardless whether she or say dappy said them, to be honest I couldn't imagine any of the lads actually saying this, infact if they did there would prob b a public outcry. I was always brought up to respect my elders so I do think it was definitely uncalled for in front of Lionel nd Im not surprised he reacted the way he did. Ollie and Dappy weren't quite sure what to do/say either and as for poor Sam. Regarding lee and the ****ing in the bath comment, that was slighyly different, there was only 2 of them there, him and casey and he sort of reminded me of a naughty little brother it wasn't that bad what he said, I don't think he would say things like that in a group of people. Now we will just wait for Jim to say something like that and watch the public outcry. lol

[joeysteele]

Personally,I myself would curb lots of things things I said when in the company of people much older than myself and especially after only being in their company for a few hours too.That is not only respect in some form but the right and decent way to act in company no matter the age make up of those present.

Also, as I said somewhere else, she chose to guide conversation to that topic.
Lionel to be fair, wasn't in the position where he could just get up and leave the company while being handcuffed to someone much younger too.
He needed to get Ollie to agree to move as well.

She allowed herself to get drunk and no one else did, even Sam was rather unhappy at her antics too when rolling all over the place.
First impressions count for a lot and for me Jasmine has made a pretty bad first impression after a very short time in the house.

She won't likely be the only one to go overboard in there after having too much to drink as the series goes on but to do so that early was,I would say anyway, uncalled for and out of order as was this topic she 'forced' on the others in her company at the time.

[Patricia4]

Jasmine I don't care for and Lionel had to wait while Ollie finished is fag because he couldn't move away Im sure he wouldn't of been there if it wasn't for Ollie.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

They need to both stay in yes

Yes

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Patricia4

Jasmine I don't care for and Lionel had to wait while Ollie finished is fag because he couldn't move away Im sure he wouldn't of been there if it wasn't for Ollie.

Exactly, I agree completely and that is something she should have taken into account too,drunk or otherwise.
There is too much of this someone was drunk to excuse bad behaviour.
Simple answer, don't get drunk, no one else did really.

[anne666]

The silly woman was too drunk to know which planet she was on. Don't get drunk? I agree but she was drunk and behaving like an arse.....Simple as that for me. I felt sorry for Sam handcuffed to her. That certainly wasn't safe. Are broken bones BB's latest idea of fun.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by anne666

The silly woman was too drunk to know which planet she was on. Don't get drunk? I agree but she was drunk and behaving like an arse.....Simple as that for me. I felt sorry for Sam handcuffed to her. That certainly wasn't safe. Are broken bones BB's latest idea of fun.

That was my take on it as well.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by mizzy25

I do think she was pissed but not as pissed as she was making out she was, the comments about the finger banging were uncalled for regardless whether she or say dappy said them, to be honest I couldn't imagine any of the lads actually saying this, infact if they did there would prob b a public outcry. I was always brought up to respect my elders so I do think it was definitely uncalled for in front of Lionel nd Im not surprised he reacted the way he did. Ollie and Dappy weren't quite sure what to do/say either and as for poor Sam. Regarding lee and the ****ing in the bath comment, that was slighyly different, there was only 2 of them there, him and casey and he sort of reminded me of a naughty little brother it wasn't that bad what he said, I don't think he would say things like that in a group of people. Now we will just wait for Jim to say something like that and watch the public outcry. lol

Good point Mizzy,can you imagine if he or Lionel had said that they love fingering someones anus,just because Jasmine is deemed pretty and fit it seems to be a red light to say and do anything .Double standards or what,lol

[Jemal]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..if she had modifies her behaviour, then she would be called 'false' and she was drunk and uninhibited anyway..and as much as I've always liked Lionel, it's ok for him to accept the money etc to go into CBB but then if he's going to do that then he has to accept what that means and there is often 'controversial' behaviour...I don't think that respect is anything to do with age either..why should she respect him any more than she would any of the other housemates, she doesn't know him at all..anyway, it's all providing what BB aim for because that's why they put such mixed age range housemates in....

!

[Ammi]

..it's not a conversation topic that I would necessarily want to be part of and if someone were to come into my home and get drunk and have a similar discussion, then maybe I would hope to get an apology from that person when sober because it was my home and my hospitality etc...but in the BB house, everyone has equal 'respect', no one more so than another person because of age, career or anything else and no rules were broken, so she didn't disrespect anyone...I know she'll get criticism and maybe be evicted by the public because of this but it doesn't make her anything awful or deserving of some of the things people will say because she does seem like a nice person...but that's BB and the nature of it, I guess she also has to understand that as well as Lionel does....

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's not a conversation topic that I would necessarily want to be part of and if someone were to come into my home and get drunk and have a similar discussion, then maybe I would hope to get an apology from that person when sober because it was my home and my hospitality etc...but in the BB house, everyone has equal 'respect', no one more so than another person because of age, career or anything else and no rules were broken, so she didn't disrespect anyone...I know she'll get criticism and maybe be evicted by the public because of this but it doesn't make her anything awful or deserving of some of the things people will say because she does seem like a nice person...but that's BB and the nature of it, I guess she also has to understand that as well as Lionel does....

I disagree Ammi.. I think, regardless of the situation or location, consideration should be given towards others.
I interact daily with people of all ages and act accordingly towards them all.. I act differently with say my best friend than I do with some if the older gentlemen that come into the pub at night. It's not being fake or repressed, it's called having a bit if sensitivity towards others feelings.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I disagree Ammi.. I think, regardless of the situation or location, consideration should be given towards others.
I interact daily with people of all ages and act accordingly towards them all.. I act differently with say my best friend than I do with some if the older gentlemen that come into the pub at night. It's not being fake or repressed, it's called having a bit if sensitivity towards others feelings.

I'm totally with you on this one Lee , seems we are in a minority , but that can only be a good thing . No one is saying she shouldn't have 'fun' but surely not at the expense of others , some people are totally selfish.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I disagree Ammi.. I think, regardless of the situation or location, consideration should be given towards others.
I interact daily with people of all ages and act accordingly towards them all.. I act differently with say my best friend than I do with some if the older gentlemen that come into the pub at night. It's not being fake or repressed, it's called having a bit if sensitivity towards others feelings.

..yeah, I agree, I think most of us do that adapt to situations..I work in a school so obviously have to ‘adapt’ to being around children/being an example etc..but those are completely different environments to being in the BB house and Lionel isn't adapting to the BB house...BB was never about ‘being an example’ to others or that any housemate has priority of respect over another...I think that also, most people have been in a position of having a lot to drink and then thinking OMG, did I do or say that..so then it comes down to ..oh well that’s ok, what I/they did but what he/she did isn’t ok, it’s a step too far...but what is too far is subjective to everyone, so long obviously as no rules are broken and if they are then BB will deal with that....

...it’s also for me how the ‘other person’ reacts, as in Lionel in this case...there have been far worse things in BB house, far more offensive...like with Shilpa Setty, for instance and her reactions to what were far more offensive and insulting things than sex talk, were very dignified for which I admired her for...I do get that it isn’t Lionel’s thing at all but he had the choice to go in there and accept everything that BB is and has always been...he also has a choice to ‘act outraged’ or whatever or to be more helpful and take more of a paternal role and just say to Jasmine..(when sober..)...look, you know this is how the public will see you if you’re not careful what you drink and that’s not something that I would want for my own daughter/granddaughter etc so maybe just think about it..and then it’s really up to Jasmine but I can’t see the point in going into this sort of environment and then just looking all outraged and disgusted etc....

...but it’s good that it’s caused this sort of differing opinions anyway because this is a lot of what the BB season on forums is all about and otherwise we’d all be saying we were bored with it...what I do miss though..(same ole, same old.....is the livefeed of ‘normal conversations’ to balance it all out because it’s hard to keep up with the pace of ‘scandal and controversy’ sometimes....

[sampvt]

It goes without saying that we should temper or mediate our language and the content of our convo when in the company of the young and the old. My kids probably swear outdoors but if they did it in my company they would get a thick ear. retrospectively I shield my grandson from verbal profanities and content that I feel he shouldn't hear.

Our younger generation seem to think its cool to offer profanities and lurid comments as part of every day life but as in the case of Lionel, she should have taken his age into consideration no mater how drunk she was. If you cant keep a civil tongue when you are drunk, maybe you shouldn't drink. We all know Bb has a habit of offering such poo pahs and Lionel should be well tuned to these indiscression but that still doesn't mean he needs to sit there and be embarrassed at someone else's behest.

Each side was a little wrong but in essence, drink coupled with bb coupled with desperados wanting to make a name for themselves is a recipe for conflict so its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.