[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

why is Labour backing this?

Because no matter how many times the inevitable is stalled with new discoveries, the fact is, the world's fuel resources are running out... and the **** is going to hit the fan when they do... so they're all in a slow, silent panic. They have to back this. They have to back it even if it is dangerous. They have no other viable alternative to scraping the bottom of the resources barrel at this point.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Because no matter how many times the inevitable is stalled with new discoveries, the fact is, the world's fuel resources are running out... and the **** is going to hit the fan when they do... so they're all in a slow, silent panic. They have to back this. They have to back it even if it is dangerous. They have no other viable alternative to scraping the bottom of the resources barrel at this point.

This tbh

I would rather risk the environment than run out of fuel sometime in the next few years. We are already screwing the environment anyway.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This tbh

I would rather risk the environment than run out of fuel sometime in the next few years. We are already screwing the environment anyway.

Great Post Vicky

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This tbh

I would rather risk the environment than run out of fuel sometime in the next few years. We are already screwing the environment anyway.

Seriously? You don't care what we leave for Skye?

We have the means to utilise our current resources far more than we do, but we don't want to make the investments/upset business.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Seriously? You don't care what we leave for Skye?

We have the means to utilise our current resources far more than we do, but we don't want to make the investments/upset business.

I agree but I just don't see it happening; a world leading economy would need to be the one to take the plunge in a decisive manner that the rest of the world would have to follow. Essentially the USA needs to be the one to say no, we need to protect the environment and be self sustainable and the rest of the world needs to follow suit... but unfortunately I just don't think it'll ever happen until all of the oil and gas is gone... because at the moment there's just this global stalemate primarily between the USA and Russia, and then countries who have so much sway in oil and gas operations like most of the Middle East, some European countries and a couple dotted about in South America and Africa, who would lose a lot of revenue if they just gave up on oil and gas...

It'll only happen when it makes more financial sense to stop using oil and gas, which will probably be when it's too late to fix the damage caused by it. Even if the American population was in popular support of withdrawing from oil and gas trade; the USA isn't about to loosen its grip on that industry because then Russia would gobble up all of that market space and have even more of a monopoly on it; thus more power and would suck more countries into its political orbit by default; which isn't something they'd want to do. I'd say it's not just about upsetting businesses but equally it's about geopolitics and about the world's major powers not wanting to risk losing their status for fear of what would happen if they did.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Seriously? You don't care what we leave for Skye?

We have the means to utilise our current resources far more than we do, but we don't want to make the investments/upset business.

Realistically, thats not going to happen though.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Seriously? You don't care what we leave for Skye?

We have the means to utilise our current resources far more than we do, but we don't want to make the investments/upset business.

The level of investment required to make renewable energy viable for 100% of our energy needs is simply unaffordable. When non-renewable resources stop being a viable source of our energy needs, the entire global human system is going to collapse spectacularly on its arse, and frankly, most people are simply going to slowly die off.

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, I'll be teaching my children (to then pass on to their children) ways to survive (and not just survive, but live well, and happily) without relying entirely on modern human convenience. I don't think it's going to be "all over" in my lifetime, or even my children's lifetimes, but my grandchildren and great-grandchildren? I just don't know.

On the other hand - I would rather have them scrape the barrel for as long as they can so that myself and my direct descendants won't have to experience the brunt of that social collapse. Maybe even buy enough time to develop economically viable alternative energy sources, who knows? I tend to doubt it, but then, I'm a pessimist.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The level of investment required to make renewable energy viable for 100% of our energy needs is simply unaffordable. When non-renewable resources stop being a viable source of our energy needs, the entire global human system is going to collapse spectacularly on its arse, and frankly, most people are simply going to slowly die off.

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, I'll be teaching my children (to then pass on to their children) ways to survive (and not just survive, but live well, and happily) without relying entirely on modern human convenience. I don't think it's going to be "all over" in my lifetime, or even my children's lifetimes, but my grandchildren and great-grandchildren? I just don't know.

On the other hand - I would rather have them scrape the barrel for as long as they can so that myself and my direct descendants won't have to experience the brunt of that social collapse. Maybe even buy enough time to develop economically viable alternative energy sources, who knows? I tend to doubt it, but then, I'm a pessimist.

Yeah, that's all very entertaining, and I'm sure it strikes a chord with many people (who watched more than 5 minutes of that dreadful Revolution show that was on), but it seems the least likely result of the energy crisis. You are seriously deluded if you think that the elites are prepared to just accept that the breakdown of society is on it's way.

They have far too much to lose, so this issue will be addressed. Also, you have to look at human history - we start making things, and we learn to make it better and better and cheaper and cheaper. Science is continuing to grow and develop ways of dealing with such things.

China will become the absolute world leaders, because they are investing more and more into new technologies, whilst the current crumbling empire of the US will continue to retreat because most of the country still believes that climate change is an impossibility, because it isn't in the bible.

it's the same with marijuana at the moment - the US are slowly coming round to it, we aren't even having the conversation in this country, and China are busy researching and filing record numbers of patents relating to it's use in medicine.

Yes, green/renewable energy at the moment is too expensive, but the more that is invested, the cheaper it will become. That's just how technology works.