[Sticks]

Originally Posted by lostalex

we tested them on our own soil before we ever dropped the bomb on japan. Technically the first country to ever be attacked with nuclear weapons was the US, not Japan.

Sorry, but a weapons test in a piece of wasteland or a desert with nobody around can not be seen as an attack. Two attacks on two cities can.

There is an argument that the real reason the bombs were dropped was to show the Russians that the US had this technology

The counter argument was that the Japanese mindset was such that they needed to get the emperor to order a surrender or else the war would drag on with more lives lost on both sides.

Also your view of WW2 takes no account of the work of Bletchley Park and the cracking of both the Enigma codes and the Tunni Codes.

[arista]

Zee

Worst is the Gas Pipeline goes through Ukraine
with our Gas supply we use.

So Push Putin he can Turn off the Gas.



sanctions - fecking will not work
as Russia gets Supplys from China
and other nations that will not do sanctions


Its your Study - Zee
so gives us more.

[Z]

Originally Posted by arista

Zee

Worst is the Gas Pipeline goes through Ukraine
with our Gas supply we use.

So Push Putin he can Turn off the Gas.



sanctions - fecking will not work
as Russia gets Supplys from China
and other nations that will not do sanctions


Its your Study - Zee
so gives us more.

You have to remember that Russia is the world's leading gas supplier and it makes up a significant chunk of their economic gains. Turning off the gas is just as harmful to Russia as it is to the countries that lose out on gas - previous gas supply cut offs to Belarus and the Ukraine were what spurred western European nations to seek out alternative transit routes - that's why we have pipelines such as the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan route from Azerbaijan-Georgia-Turkey which was heavily supported by the USA. Russia itself sought to build new connections with Western Europe in light of those cut offs, it signed a deal with Gerhard Schroeder in 2005 to construct Nord Stream that goes directly from Russia to Germany through the Baltic Sea. There have not been any supply interruptions along that route since its inception. Germany and Russia are reliable trading partners to one another, Russia will not intentionally cut off that route because it's a market of 80 million people. While Russia may not want the West interfering in Ukraine, the West also forms the greatest share of its energy market. Putin could turn off the gas, but he'd also be deeply damaging Russia's economy if he did so on a large scale and for too long. Europe would continue to invest in projects such as Nabucco which have stalled over the last few years in order to bypass Russia as a supplier and transit country; that is not a situation which Russia would find acceptable so I doubt we'll see any situations where Russia intentionally cuts off the gas to harm its Western customers.

[arista]

"for too long."


Yes he can do what he wants if you push him.
So you think Putin will not have a reason to get nasty


Thats Something
tell the press

Infact can you not get down for Ch4HD News
and help Jon Snow

[Z]

Originally Posted by arista

"for too long."


Yes he can do what he wants if you push him.
So you think Putin will not have a reason to get nasty


Thats Something
tell the press

Infact can you not get down for Ch4HD News
and help Jon Snow

If Putin turns off the gas; Europe turns elsewhere for supplies. It would be economic suicide to do something that dramatic, Russia has spent the entire 21st century thus far building itself up to be an energy giant, it would not compromise that for anything. I'm not sure Channel 4 would want me but to be honest I think it's just a load of scare mongering, the media claiming that Putin will turn off the gas and it'll affect western Europe. It's propaganda to get people listening to what's happening in Ukraine; the reality is that Putin has no interest in harming Western European energy interests because those are also Russian energy interests. It's a mutual interdependency; albeit slightly in Russia's favour, but interdependent nonetheless.

[Z]

And what do you know, just as I thought, Poland's already called for a NATO meeting...

Secretary General announces North Atlantic Council to meet following Poland's request for Article 4 consultations

The North Atlantic Council, which includes the ambassadors of all 28 NATO Allies, will meet on Tuesday 4 March, following a request by Poland under article 4 of NATO's founding Washington Treaty.

Under article 4 of the Treaty, any Ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened.

The developments in and around Ukraine are seen to constitute a threat to neighboring Allied countries and having direct and serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_107711.htm

[arista]

Ch4HD News
says no gas problems from Russia
just now



Live in Moscow now

[Z]

There won't be any gas problems. It's the leverage that's ensuring Western Europe doesn't get involved. Sadly for the Ukrainian people, this is largely down to them, help is not likely to be forthcoming because the Orange Revolution in 2004 failed to go far enough and align Ukraine with EU in time.

[arista]

Well put on Ch4News
Nothing is set by the West on what they can do.
Which people hate.

Scared of Putin

Tough Tittie


In America the President is Dithering- talking Live on FoxNewsHD and CNN

[GypsyGoth]

It's only the Ukraine, let Russia have it, it's not like it's one of the cool european countries. In fact we should give them Switzerland as well, I don't trust those ****ers.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

It's only the Ukraine, let Russia have it, it's not like it's one of the cool european countries. In fact we should give them Switzerland as well, I don't trust those ****ers.

How's your application to the Diplomatic Corps going Gyps?

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Livia

How's your application to the Diplomatic Corps going Gyps?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I think they should consider you as a successor to William Haig. Seriously, I'd vote for that...

[arista]

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think they should consider you as a successor to William Haig. Seriously, I'd vote for that...

Actually of the main issues I have is with the media coverage of it and it's the exact same media coverage they have when they pretend something serious is about to happen, like North Korea. When I looked at the news about that there were graphics, and experts all saying how dreadfully serious it all was and how we all should be worried. Yet nothing happened.

And this whole event is the same thing. It seems like a great exercise in news stations getting ratings.

Same with that Oscar guy, he either murdered his wife thinking he was murdering someone he didn't know, or he murderer her on purpose. He should get locked up and be forgotten about. Instead his trail has become some type of reality tv courtroom drama

Maybe I shouldn't look at the news.

[Z]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

It's only the Ukraine, let Russia have it, it's not like it's one of the cool european countries. In fact we should give them Switzerland as well, I don't trust those ****ers.

Switzerland has enough nuclear bomb shelters to house its entire population, and all its mountain passes are booby trapped. Let's get the ****ers.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Actually of the main issues I have is with the media coverage of it and it's the exact same media coverage they have when they pretend something serious is about to happen, like North Korea. When I looked at the news about that there were graphics, and experts all saying how dreadfully serious it all was and how we all should be worried. Yet nothing happened.

And this whole event is the same thing. It seems like a great exercise in news stations getting ratings.

Same with that Oscar guy, he either murdered his wife thinking he was murdering someone he didn't know, or he murderer her on purpose. He should get locked up and be forgotten about. Instead his trail has become some type of reality tv courtroom drama

Maybe I shouldn't look at the news.

To be fair, this isnt some pudgy dictator who cant even feed his own country threatening to launch nukes using Windows 95, this is Russia invading another country and threatening military action against Ukrainian soldiers if they dont cooperate within 40 minutes from now. It's something that is actually happening now. In the long run, I dont imagine any sort of large scale war will occour with Russia, but it's still big news, and worth covering.

[Nedusa]

Breathe easy..........Folks

It didn't happen, probably never was to be fair. just Mr Putin moving one of his chess pieces....

[arista]

Dont Mess with him

[arista]

Putin Is Live Now on all media



http://news.sky.com/story/1220651/pu...ded-in-ukraine


Feel The Force

[Kizzy]

Ok, having watched it I was confused by one thing... well lots of things but this mainly.
He appeared in one section to have an issue with oligarchs, then when discussing the natural gas supply to the Ukraine he was suggesting it was good business sense to hike the price as they haven't paid at the 'special price'....
the minimum wage there is half that of Russia so how is that going to work?

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok, having watched it I was confused by one thing... well lots of things but this mainly.
He appeared in one section to have an issue with oligarchs, then when discussing the natural gas supply to the Ukraine he was suggesting it was good business sense to hike the price as they haven't paid at the 'special price'....
the minimum wage there is half that of Russia so how is that going to work?

It doesn't, to put it bluntly. Russia hikes the prices up to make Ukraine obedient. Comparatively, Belarus is practically swimming in all the extra gas it can afford because it's quite happy to play Little Russia for reduced gas prices. Lukashenko's a mental case though.

It is good business sense for Russia to charge premium prices for its gas though, it's how it makes its money, it's an energy superpower. Ukraine has a large population, Russia has gas to sell, Russia can similarly sell gas at any price it wants to different EU countries because it deals with them bilaterally and not at the aggregate EU level, there's no policy coordination in the EU for energy which is a shambles (I'm writing about that at the moment) - some countries have been trying to get energy security onto the EU agenda for some time now but it's been ignored by Western European countries who have no reason to worry about Russia cutting them off.

[Kizzy]

Is it right to do this though from a humanitarian perspective, they will effectively be an oligarch then? We have the option to heat or eat here, and it's bad enough, even though what we call poverty here will seem like luxury there. I'm guessing in the Ukraine if they do hike the gas price then people will die?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is it right to do this though from a humanitarian perspective, they will effectively be an oligarch then? We have the option to heat or eat here, and it's bad enough, even though what we call poverty here will seem like luxury there. I'm guessing in the Ukraine if they do hike the gas price then people will die?

No deaths


And this is not America's problem
they have enough of their own.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

No deaths


And this is not America's problem
they have enough of their own.

People are dying here of fuel poverty in the winter it will be magnified there, and I never mentioned America....