[Josy]

Originally Posted by Forgetmenot

Is there any one who can talk about Dee without using the term scrounger!? Do you or any one else, so inclined, know anything about her or what may or may not have happened in her life? She was not always on 'benefits' and also has not been since earlier this year, March I believe.
She has also been ill with depression, which can be a very nasty illness. She would have been diagnosed, as with any illness and prescribed medication.
People are not born on benefits, stuff happens, especially when useless governments allow corrupt bankers to create a horrific recession, then people get made redundant, prices go up and up..the benifits people recieve are from taxes and often those people on benifits have worked and therefore paid taxes..that's what its for.
You might not like Dee but can you please come up with some comprehensive reason, rather than just slagging her off because she has been unemployed. Rant over

She is nasty.
She stole from vulnerable people in her job.
She is intimidating to people she doesn't like.
She is sly.
She is two faced.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Josy

She is nasty.
She stole from vulnerable people in her job.
She is intimidating to people she doesn't like.
She is sly.
She is two faced.

And thats just for starters

[Forgetmenot]

Originally Posted by Josy

She is nasty.
She stole from vulnerable people in her job.
She is intimidating to people she doesn't like.
She is sly.
She is two faced.

I can see she might be thought to be sly because she is very intelligent which makes he some what articulate, so that perhaps could make her seem intimidating?don't know any thing about her stealing but assume she was punished fir that if every one knows about it.
I still like her, find her interesting and feel under that under all the bravado she is not very happy and is quite vulnerable..she is definitely self defacing and does not keep telling us all how intelligent she is, like George does, for example.
Certainly would find her interesting to talk too, especially compared to many in three re, like Lauren, George, Ricki..
She also has had a rough time since the infamous programme as people do just love to hate yet there are millions unemployed, on benefits, what ever..

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Forgetmenot

I can see she might be thought to be sly because she is very intelligent which makes he some what articulate, so that perhaps could make her seem intimidating?don't know any thing about her stealing but assume she was punished fir that if every one knows about it.
I still like her, find her interesting and feel under that under all the bravado she is not very happy and is quite vulnerable..she is definitely self defacing and does not keep telling us all how intelligent she is, like George does, for example.
Certainly would find her interesting to talk too, especially compared to many in three re, like Lauren, George, Ricki..
She also has had a rough time since the infamous programme as people do just love to hate yet there are millions unemployed, on benefits, what ever..

Her 'intelligence' is psuedo-intelligence. Do not confuse street cunning with intelligence.

Her self-effacement is false - No one who genuinely has the sentiments: "It's hard for me when I don't think I've a rights to be in here", "I'm nobody. I'm not a celebrity", would act and speak to established, genuine celebrities in the superior and aggressive manner which she does. Not once since she set foot in the house as she had any respect or reverence or been in awe of any of the celebrities.

She is certainly not articulate - though I will concede that she has mastered the art of punctuating her speech with swear words.

Finally, no one is condemning people on benefits - just this abhorrent person who happened to have risen to prominence solely for being on benefits.

[Forgetmenot]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Her 'intelligence' is psuedo-intelligence. Do not confuse street cunning with intelligence.

Her self-effacement is false - No one who genuinely has the sentiments: "It's hard for me when I don't think I've a rights to be in here", "I'm nobody. I'm not a celebrity", would act and speak to established, genuine celebrities in the superior and aggressive manner which she does. Not once since she set foot in the house as she had any respect or reverence or been in awe of any of the celebrities.

She is certainly not articulate - though I will concede that she has mastered the art of punctuating her speech with swear words.

Finally, no one is condemning people on benefits - just this abhorrent person who happened to have risen to prominence solely for being on benefits.

Don't think "street cunning" is what I have mistaken here, what as snobby remark.!
As to swearing. I got to Uni in my 40's, so some what of a mature student. What I remember most. Are two things.1) a lecture by the Dean, in which he told we were the Creme del acre me of the country!
2) in all the time I was there the most common word heard all day every day, from students not much older than my son, and from all walks of life, was the F!ck word. It was like being brain washed because my brain has it branded into my vocabulary ..not only that, I hear that Anglo Saxon expression, along with many others, every time I switch on the TV, or am out any where and again, from people from all sorts of bd grounds; the majority certainly not 'street' people.
I think you are mistaken in not recognising or being aware of natural intelligence held by many who do not get to have a first class education, or even a second class one!
As to having no reverence for the 'genuine established celebrities ', thank heavens for that, you will be telling us she should be curtsying next! As to established celebrities, I have never heard off most of them, they just seem mostly a bunch of desperate people needing air space by any means in the hopes of publicity.
But then I, like Gary, am 70 odd, so what do I know!
As to rising to prominence solely fir being on benefits, personally I think that is more about being out spoken, and 'Articulate'.
IMO, such as it is, I think she would have been noticed and 'risen to prominence' if she had been in any other programme

[abhorson]

Originally Posted by Forgetmenot

Don't think "street cunning" is what I have mistaken here, what as snobby remark.!
As to swearing. I got to Uni in my 40's, so some what of a mature student. What I remember most. Are two things.1) a lecture by the Dean, in which he told we were the Creme del acre me of the country!
2) in all the time I was there the most common word heard all day every day, from students not much older than my son, and from all walks of life, was the F!ck word. It was like being brain washed because my brain has it branded into my vocabulary ..not only that, I hear that Anglo Saxon expression, along with many others, every time I switch on the TV, or am out any where and again, from people from all sorts of bd grounds; the majority certainly not 'street' people.
I think you are mistaken in not recognising or being aware of natural intelligence held by many who do not get to have a first class education, or even a second class one!
As to having no reverence for the 'genuine established celebrities ', thank heavens for that, you will be telling us she should be curtsying next! As to established celebrities, I have never heard off most of them, they just seem mostly a bunch of desperate people needing air space by any means in the hopes of publicity.
But then I, like Gary, am 70 odd, so what do I know!
As to rising to prominence solely fir being on benefits, personally I think that is more about being out spoken, and 'Articulate'.
IMO, such as it is, I think she would have been noticed and 'risen to prominence' if she had been in any other programme

Crimestoppers!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Forgetmenot

Don't think "street cunning" is what I have mistaken here, what as snobby remark.!
As to swearing. I got to Uni in my 40's, so some what of a mature student. What I remember most. Are two things.1) a lecture by the Dean, in which he told we were the Creme del acre me of the country!
2) in all the time I was there the most common word heard all day every day, from students not much older than my son, and from all walks of life, was the F!ck word. It was like being brain washed because my brain has it branded into my vocabulary ..not only that, I hear that Anglo Saxon expression, along with many others, every time I switch on the TV, or am out any where and again, from people from all sorts of bd grounds; the majority certainly not 'street' people.
I think you are mistaken in not recognising or being aware of natural intelligence held by many who do not get to have a first class education, or even a second class one!
As to having no reverence for the 'genuine established celebrities ', thank heavens for that, you will be telling us she should be curtsying next! As to established celebrities, I have never heard off most of them, they just seem mostly a bunch of desperate people needing air space by any means in the hopes of publicity.
But then I, like Gary, am 70 odd, so what do I know!
As to rising to prominence solely fir being on benefits, personally I think that is more about being out spoken, and 'Articulate'.
IMO, such as it is, I think she would have been noticed and 'risen to prominence' if she had been in any other programme

There is no time or space here to examine social political economics, but I take umbrage at your remark that I have made a 'snobby' comment, and I am sorry that you have also misunderstood my post. I was raised in poverty in a 3 up 2 down terrace house owned by the local colliery. My mother - a devout Catholic - had 3 jobs all her life. My father worked as a 'ripper' at the local pit - a lifelong job interrupted only by his 8 years serving pre-war, through the war, and afterwards, in the army. Neither of my parents had a dishonest bone in their bodies. We were poor. The only decoration we had in the house were tatty plaster statues of Christ and the Virgin Mary. I was 'socially aware' of the gulf between 'rich' and 'poor', and the reasons behind it , at the age of 8 - something which has coloured my political leanings ever since towards socialism. I am 'working class' and proud to be working class, but that does not mean that I am blinkered to reality. In my opinion - and I have to generalise, but realise that there are exceptions - one of the greatest threats to life in Britain as we have known it (and there are others) is the unfettered rise of the 'underclasses' - not 'working classes, - 'underclasses' - uneducated, moral-less, ignorant, work-shy males who 'couple' with uneducated, moral-less, ignorant, work-shy females. A 'soft' welfare system riddled with loop-holes allowing abuse, affords them to breed irresponsibly, and the offspring are 'raised' without education, morals, parental guidance, discipline, or consideration for others. The cycle continues and each generation is more degenerate than the previous one. Hence; a society which is teetering on the brink of collapse - drugs, crime, anti-social behaviour all increasing. For the first time in history, there are more 'state dependant' 'citizens' than privately employed workers. "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. The essential causes of Rome’s decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars."
Will Durant, Caesar and Christ.

In my opinion, Dee is a product of the above and a member of the 'underclasses'. She is a hypocrite, completely false - and thoroughly dishonest in being so - manipulative, and totally without genuine consideration for other people or other people's feelings. As for her being 'intelligent'; I still maintain that she is not intelligent but devious, cunning, and 'street' smart - there is a difference. Like others before her, Dee entered the house on a tsunami of public affection (though why mystifies me) and was made favourite to win. If she possessed genuine intelligence, she would have made sure that the she maintained the false 'façade' which gained her that popularity in the first place. However, she did not. The mask slipped, and the caring 'Earth Mother' was soon exposed as the foul-mouthed, ignorant, manipulative, bullying back-stabber and disrespectful, overly ambitious 2 faced pig she really is, and - quite evidently - always has been. She (and George) are like those entertainers who can readily fill a 3 minute slot on someone else's show, but fail miserably to entertain when given a 60 minute show of their own - a fake persona - like a lack of talent - is soon exposed over time.

You also misunderstand my point about 'reverence' for genuine celebrities. I meant reverence in the true meaning of the word; 'to have respect'. I am not asking anyone to 'curtsey' or 'doff their cap', and I agree that most HM's in there are just very fortunate to be awarded 'celebrity' status - none more so than Dee and George. What I meant to illustrate - and obviously failed to do - was that Dee's dominant bullying behaviour and aggressive attitude with 'bona fide' (for want of a better term) celebrities, does not marry with her meek and mild self-effacing statements; "It's hard for me when I don't think I should be in here anyway. I'm not a celebrity" etc. etc. I ought to call her Uriah Heep instead of Truffle Pig; "Ever so humble, Mr Copperfield". No; from day one, she slid into her celebrity role in the house with pure acceptance of it. From day 2 she was acting as if she owned the house.

She is an abhorrent person and I detest her and all that she stands for, I am sorry if you do not agree.

[Forgetmenot]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There is no time or space here to examine social political economics, but I take umbrage at your remark that I have made a 'snobby' comment, and I am sorry that you have also misunderstood my post. I was raised in poverty in a 3 up 2 down terrace house owned by the local colliery. My mother - a devout Catholic - had 3 jobs all her life. My father worked as a 'ripper' at the local pit - a lifelong job interrupted only by his 8 years serving pre-war, through the war, and afterwards, in the army. Neither of my parents had a dishonest bone in their bodies. We were poor. The only decoration we had in the house were tatty plaster statues of Christ and the Virgin Mary. I was 'socially aware' of the gulf between 'rich' and 'poor', and the reasons behind it , at the age of 8 - something which has coloured my political leanings ever since towards socialism. I am 'working class' and proud to be working class, but that does not mean that I am blinkered to reality. In my opinion - and I have to generalise, but realise that there are exceptions - one of the greatest threats to life in Britain as we have known it (and there are others) is the unfettered rise of the 'underclasses' - not 'working classes, - 'underclasses' - uneducated, moral-less, ignorant, work-shy males who 'couple' with uneducated, moral-less, ignorant, work-shy females. A 'soft' welfare system riddled with loop-holes allowing abuse, affords them to breed irresponsibly, and the offspring are 'raised' without education, morals, parental guidance, discipline, or consideration for others. The cycle continues and each generation is more degenerate than the previous one. Hence; a society which is teetering on the brink of collapse - drugs, crime, anti-social behaviour all increasing. For the first time in history, there are more 'state dependant' 'citizens' than privately employed workers. "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. The essential causes of Rome’s decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars."
Will Durant, Caesar and Christ.

In my opinion, Dee is a product of the above and a member of the 'underclasses'. She is a hypocrite, completely false - and thoroughly dishonest in being so - manipulative, and totally without genuine consideration for other people or other people's feelings. As for her being 'intelligent'; I still maintain that she is not intelligent but devious, cunning, and 'street' smart - there is a difference. Like others before her, Dee entered the house on a tsunami of public affection (though why mystifies me) and was made favourite to win. If she possessed genuine intelligence, she would have made sure that the she maintained the false 'façade' which gained her that popularity in the first place. However, she did not. The mask slipped, and the caring 'Earth Mother' was soon exposed as the foul-mouthed, ignorant, manipulative, bullying back-stabber and disrespectful, overly ambitious 2 faced pig she really is, and - quite evidently - always has been. She (and George) are like those entertainers who can readily fill a 3 minute slot on someone else's show, but fail miserably to entertain when given a 60 minute show of their own - a fake persona - like a lack of talent - is soon exposed over time.

You also misunderstand my point about 'reverence' for genuine celebrities. I meant reverence in the true meaning of the word; 'to have respect'. I am not asking anyone to 'curtsey' or 'doff their cap', and I agree that most HM's in there are just very fortunate to be awarded 'celebrity' status - none more so than Dee and George. What I meant to illustrate - and obviously failed to do - was that Dee's dominant bullying behaviour and aggressive attitude with 'bona fide' (for want of a better term) celebrities, does not marry with her meek and mild self-effacing statements; "It's hard for me when I don't think I should be in here anyway. I'm not a celebrity" etc. etc. I ought to call her Uriah Heep instead of Truffle Pig; "Ever so humble, Mr Copperfield". No; from day one, she slid into her celebrity role in the house with pure acceptance of it. From day 2 she was acting as if she owned the house.

She is an abhorrent person and I detest her and all that she stands for, I am sorry if you do not agree.

Oh Dear, you really do dislike Dee, don't you. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Iam sorry to hear about your poverty in childhood, the social divides in this country were and are horrific. I too came from poverty, but for different reasons than yours. My father was in the RAF and away a lot. Only thing I respected him for was he rose through the ranks on his own merit, not by some birth right but he was a self absorbed bully. We walked around with holes in our shoes, stuffing them with newspaper which then came out soggy in minutes, whilst he had hand made shoes and a wardrobe full of clothes.
I to am a socialist and feel very strongly about my beliefs. But I try not to judge people who swear and also not at face value, an example being Frenchy who under all the extremism and noise I thought was a sensitive person who is kinds itch Dee, I cannot see her confident behaviour and ability to speak he mind makes her a bad person. When I compare her behaviour to that of James, she seems like a saint !
Any way, its all nearly over so thank goodness for that!

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Josy

She is nasty.
She stole from vulnerable people in her job.
She is intimidating to people she doesn't like.
She is sly.
She is two faced.

All of that.