[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A common misconception. The western world has more personal freedom because it revolves around capitalism, and because the people who are running things benefit hugely from that capitalism and exploiting a free (or more or less free) market with huge numbers of relatively well off, relatively frivolous consumers.

Freedom and lack of oppression is essential to that consumer economy. Having a pleasant, comfortable life (and having a desire to keep it pleasant and comfortable, or make it more pleasant and comfortable) is also an integral to that capitalist / consumer economy.

That is why we are "free", and that is why we are "comfortable". If it benefited those with power and money for us not to be free or comfortable, we would not be free or comfortable.

No way of life is perfect and never will be and there will always those that benefit more than others. But the capitalist system has proved most successful for the majority which is why the majority are relatively content with the way things are and why so many come from less successful economies in their droves. Give me capitalism to dictatorship any day.

Improved education and communication, all part of the capitalist environment, have led to a better understanding and support of human rights and a better life for most. Such a system benefits the majority which is why it is so successful and why so many subscribe to it and why many of those that don't resent those that do.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

No way of life is perfect and never will be and there will always those that benefit more than others. But the capitalist system has proved most successful for the majority which is why the majority are relatively content with the way things are and why so many come from less successful economies in their droves. Give me capitalism to dictatorship any day.

Improved education and communication, all part of the capitalist environment, have led to a better understanding and support of human rights and a better life for most. Such a system benefits the majority which is why it is so successful and why so many subscribe to it and why many of those that don't resent those that do.

I'm not saying that we aren't comparatively lucky to live comfortable lives and have a higher degree of personal freedom than most. I am aware that the majority of the world's population have it "worse" in many ways (although not in every way, in my opinion, but that's another debate).

All I'm disputing is the reasoning for it. We are not comfortable and free because we joined hands and stood up to the minority of rich / powerful people and demanded respect. We are comfortable and free because it benefits that rich and powerful minority for us to be comfortable and free. As soon as it stops being beneficial for those people (hopefully it won't, but if it does) then we can wave our comfort and freedom goodbye. Because whilst we have comfort, and we have freedom, and we (mostly) have a large degree of control over our own lives and decisions, what we certainly don't have is any power or control on a grander scale. We have what we are allowed.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying that we aren't comparatively lucky to live comfortable lives and have a higher degree of personal freedom than most. I am aware that the majority of the world's population have it "worse" in many ways (although not in every way, in my opinion, but that's another debate).

All I'm disputing is the reasoning for it. We are not comfortable and free because we joined hands and stood up to the minority of rich / powerful people and demanded respect. We are comfortable and free because it benefits that rich and powerful minority for us to be comfortable and free. As soon as it stops being beneficial for those people (hopefully it won't, but if it does) then we can wave our comfort and freedom goodbye. Because whilst we have comfort, and we have freedom, and we (mostly) have a large degree of control over our own lives and decisions, what we certainly don't have is any power or control on a grander scale. We have what we are allowed.

I don't disagree with much of what you say but I think we can't go backwards and we (Westerners) are now too educated and free-thinking to accept anything less than what we have and will always stand up and demand certain rights and never wave our comfort and freedom goodbye quietly. I simply don't believe that could happen now.

Which is why such religous dictatorships deny the majority an education and don't allow them the power of free-thought thus denying them a voice and stripping them of any power. They end up totallly brainwashed and believing all the garbage they have been spoon-fed since birth.

I think the reasoning behind our way of life. although not perfect, is less brutal, less controlling and more respectful and compassionate than that of religous dictatorships. What we do have it more control over our lives and more power than those confined by enforced religous doctrine.