[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mokkajava

While I have no idea what religion you claim, and I can believe that you personally have never condemned someone else for their differing beliefs, the design and construct of a religion is faith that the core beliefs of it are the truth, and by saying what you believe is true over anyone's differing beliefs, your religion is putting all others in the category of the condemned by its own doctrine.

"It's true to me that god exists and that if I don't believe in him I go to hell after death" is saying that those not in my religion and belief system are condemned

I'm Jewish and Jews don't believe in hell.

Whatever you believe the design and constructs of a religion are, I personally don't know anyone of any faith who would wish to convert someone... except maybe some Jehovah's Witnesses I lived near once, they were pretty keen on ministry. I've always found that it's people with no faith who are quick to condemn religions by lumping them all together and pulling out the very worst of each one. Extremists - found in virtually all religions - are an exception of course.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm Jewish and Jews don't believe in hell.

Whatever you believe the design and constructs of a religion are, I personally don't know anyone of any faith who would wish to convert someone... except maybe some Jehovah's Witnesses I lived near once, they were pretty keen on ministry. I've always found that it's people with no faith who are quick to condemn religions by lumping them all together and pulling out the very worst of each one. Extremists - found in virtually all religions - are an exception of course.

But your faith does believe in a "World to Come" where if you are not born into or apart of the Jewish faith... you do not get to be apart of. A difference to hell yes... but still an exclusion/ condemnation to those who don't qualify.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mokkajava

But your faith does believe in a "World to Come" where if you are not born into or apart of the Jewish faith... you do not get to be apart of. A difference to hell yes... but still an exclusion/ condemnation to those who don't qualify.

I don't get your point. Are you saying that if I believe in an afterlife, I'm condemning others not of my faith?

Who can say what happens after death? No one, not really. My faith teaches me one thing, someone else's faith teaches them something else. Jesus was a Jew who said that he believed in the Laws of Moses. Does that mean that Christians all go to the same place as Jews? Who knows.

The best I can offer you is, I believe in freedom for everyone to worship as they wish, or not worship if they wish, and live a happy, fulfilled life. I don't believe you have to be religious to do that.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't get your point. Are you saying that if I believe in an afterlife, I'm condemning others not of my faith?

Who can say what happens after death? No one, not really. My faith teaches me one thing, someone else's faith teaches them something else. Jesus was a Jew who said that he believed in the Laws of Moses. Does that mean that Christians all go to the same place as Jews? Who knows.

Yes... I am saying that at the core of every religion is the "we are right an you are wrong" factor, and none of us knows for sure what if anything happens after death, but the belief in it is an assertion that your belief is right over another, and I can't get on board that train of thought.

Originally Posted by Livia

The best I can offer you is, I believe in freedom for everyone to worship as they wish, or not worship if they wish, and live a happy, fulfilled life. I don't believe you have to be religious to do that.

I also believe in this same freedom, and I don't try to interfere in others beliefs, and I teach my kids tolerance and respect for all beliefs and ideologies... but I disagree with you that non-religious people are the driving force behind intolerance. Religions themselves are innately intolerant in their structure and strictures.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mokkajava

Yes... I am saying that at the core of every religion is the "we are right an you are wrong" factor, and none of us knows for sure what if anything happens after death, but the belief in it is an assertion that your belief is right over another, and I can't get on board that train of thought.

"And lo, Jesus did ascend the steps and address his detractors, with the simplest of rebuttals.

Na na, na naaa na, Na-na-na-na-naaaah nah. Your religion is rubbish and mine is awesome.

And they saw that it was good."