[Jemal]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I am a teaching assistant,my brother is a firefighter,and I believe they are in for some cuts,so it will affect me and him,but I am not throwing a tantrum,if the time comes,I will deal with it,find another job and get on with life,afterall I am sure they don't make these cuts just to piss people off and make them poor,no one would go out of their way to make themselves unpopular.My mother also looks after a disabled gentleman,who has no savings as such,but his social workers make sure he lives comfortable and gets the help he needs,I think a lot of scare mongering is flying about.

You say this now kaz, but just wait.
I would never wish hell on someone or their family but it is the inevitable that everyone will suffer.

[Jemal]

Originally Posted by Jemal

You say this now kaz, but just wait.
I would never wish hell on someone or their family but it is the inevitable that everyone will suffer.

Apart from the rich folks that is.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The only way to have a election system more reflective of % votes is through some form of PR system. To get 40% or more votes in multi party politics is going to be next to impossible.

I've said it before, the UK was given the choice of a new system and they said NO. To try and diminish that result by saying other issues were more important or whatever is not supportive of democracy .... again. Democracy is not something you can pick up and forget as it suits.

All that being said, we have a democracy, people can lobby for change, and if they get the required support it will change. But all i see is bleating, yes, i repeat bleating, because people can't accept the result of a democratic election. Its disgusting. If people didn't want something they wouldn't have voted for it.

In a democracy, it is everyones right to have their view respected. People voted for the conservatives IN THE MAJORITY - that is the will of the people

That is what I am saying,obviously the election result cannot be changed but now for me, the system needs to be changed sooner rather than later.

I am saying,I am now a convert to pr,now I would support it fully.

It doesn't however mean that everyone has to now sit back and let this govt; trample over them like bulldozers and not speak out as to that meantime.

So I will now choose myself to support any organisation and parties that will look at pr again and also, I,for one,will join marches such as the one on Sunday against anything I see as a massive and wrong injustice.

Putting my words into action, rather than just sitting around talking about it and letting it happen without any attention being drawn to the fact it is happening.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And if she loses her job?...

But she hasn't Kizzy,people are presuming all this will happen,and IF it does,I am sure he will be booted out at the next opportunity.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

which cuts in the future are some people on here crystal ball reading?

have i missed something?

The 12 billion...yes you have, maybe if you hadn't been so blindsided by farage splitting the vote you would be more switched on tho what's happening right now

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jemal

You say this now kaz, but just wait.
I would never wish hell on someone or their family but it is the inevitable that everyone will suffer.

Neither would I Jemal,IF that happens,we have the opportunity to kick him out.I don't want people to suffer,but I do think there is an overreaction at the moment,I hope he doesn't let us down,but there will be cuts we wont all like.Great thread btw.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The 12 billion...yes you have, maybe if you hadn't been so blindsided by farage splitting the vote you would be more switched on tho what's happening right now

From where?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The 12 billion...yes you have, maybe if you hadn't been so blindsided by farage splitting the vote you would be more switched on tho what's happening right now

Wasting your time there with all respect Kizzy.

You are 100% right though, the extra 10 billion pounds of welfare cuts he has to find as was discussed all through the election and even still today on the daily politics with Andrew Neill.

The welfare cuts even Nigel Farage and UKIP was against just as Nicola Sturgeon is too, and she is still saying she will fight tooth and nail to stop happening in Scotland.

[Crimson Dynamo]

last time I looked there has been no cuts made by this new government and no announcement yet where they will be. The UK public has decided that cuts need to be made and if you dont like that then tough.

no point crying about what happens in the future when none of you know yet what cuts where will be

[Livia]

You always get this after an election, those who didn't want the party that won moan at length about the unfairness of the system and get all dramatic about what the outcome will be. However, the same system seemed to suit them in 1997, 2001, 2005... Funny that.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

You always get this after an election, those who didn't want the party that won moan at length about the unfairness of the system and get all dramatic about what the outcome will be. However, the same system seemed to suit them in 1997, 2001, 2005... Funny that.

Not for everyone,I was furious with the Labour govt; being able to govern after only getting 35.2% of the vote in 2005.
Aged 13,I couldn't believe it should be even possible to.
Had I been old enough i would not have wanted Labour govts; in 1997 and 2001 however the votes they got were over 40% which had been how it had been for all elections post war, except in 1974.

I have also said,I can accept a govt; that gets over 40% of the votes.
It isn't at all about dramatics for me, it is about fairness and better representation of those taking the time to go out and vote in elections
We now have a form of pr for the European elections.

It is frankly ridiculous a govt; in my view, can govern a whole 4 nations 'unchecked' after taking far less than 40% of the votes cast.
Utterly ridiculous.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

last time I looked there has been no cuts made by this new government and no announcement yet where they will be. The UK public has decided that cuts need to be made and if you dont like that then tough.

no point crying about what happens in the future when none of you know yet what cuts where will be

"If you don't like that then tough" ...?

...some of us aren't so weak willed, LT

They announced a further 12 billion in cuts specifically to welfare before the election. I suppose you're right though - no point assuming that anything said pre-election is what will actually happen afterwards. Look at 2005. They basically forgot to do everything they said they would do, and instead did everything they promised that they wouldn't do after that election. So if that Tory tradition is holding strong, disabled kids have nothing to worry about.

AND EVEN IF THEY DO THEY SHOULD SHUT UP because that's TOUGH! RIGHT!? Stupid disabled kids, being born and not dying yet, how dare they! Stupid parents of disabled kids, choosing to have defective children when they're not even rich! Why didn't they just have normal ones like everyone else if they knew they wouldn't be able to support a broken one? Selfish.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jemal

Apart from the rich folks that is.

A lot of people have worked really hard to get rich though Jemal,it had to start somewhere even for those who inherit,It's like people don't like people being rich.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"If you don't like that then tough" ...?

...some of us aren't so weak willed, LT

They announced a further 12 billion in cuts specifically to welfare before the election. I suppose you're right though - no point assuming that anything said pre-election is what will actually happen afterwards. Look at 2005. They basically forgot to do everything they said they would do, and instead did everything they promised that they wouldn't do after that election. So if that Tory tradition is holding strong, disabled kids have nothing to worry about.

AND EVEN IF THEY DO THEY SHOULD SHUT UP because that's TOUGH! RIGHT!? Stupid disabled kids, being born and not dying yet, how dare they! Stupid parents of disabled kids, choosing to have defective children when they're not even rich! Why didn't they just have normal ones like everyone else if they knew they wouldn't be able to support a broken one? Selfish.

David Cameron had a disabled son,who sadly died,don't you tell me that he doesn't care,one of the best pictures I have ever seen of a father and son was one of him and Ivan.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

David Cameron had a disabled son,who sadly died,don't you tell me that he doesn't care,one of the best pictures I have ever seen of a father and son was one of him and Ivan.

I'm sure he loved his son and loves his own family but he doesn't give a flying **** about other people's children. Disabled or otherwise.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

A lot of people have worked really hard to get rich though Jemal,it had to start somewhere even for those who inherit,It's like people don't like people being rich.

Some poor people are lazy, some rich people need to do relatively little for their money. Some rich people worked hard to get into that position, some people work their fingers to the bone and will never have a hope of being rich.

The two aren't particularly related.

The idea that rich people are rich because they "work harder" is quite simply a completel fallacy. But it's a fallacy that the Tory party would absolutely love that you believe.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Some poor people are lazy, some rich people need to do relatively little for their money. Some rich people worked hard to get into that position, some people work their fingers to the bone and will never have a hope of being rich.

The two aren't particularly related.

The idea that rich people are rich because they "work harder" is quite simply a completel fallacy. But it's a fallacy that the Tory party would absolutely love that you believe.

I didn't say they work harder though did I ,I said they are rich because they have worked hard.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I am a teaching assistant,my brother is a firefighter,and I believe they are in for some cuts,so it will affect me and him,but I am not throwing a tantrum,if the time comes,I will deal with it,find another job and get on with life,afterall I am sure they don't make these cuts just to piss people off and make them poor,no one would go out of their way to make themselves unpopular.My mother also looks after a disabled gentleman,who has no savings as such,but his social workers make sure he lives comfortable and gets the help he needs,I think a lot of scare mongering is flying about.

I think you're being very naive and I do not understand why you're so blindly loyal to a party that will do nothing but make your life harder. It's quite sad in all honesty.

The cuts are going to **** over most of your family it seems. You'll be the first one to suffer as Teaching Assistants are being cut all over the place already and if those cuts go through you can almost certainly say goodbye to your job and good luck finding another similar position. You'll either be forced to live on a vicious dole system until (more likely IF) a TA job comes up or you'll be forced to go for another role that wastes your talents and probably won't pay as much, you'll be lucky to get a job with set hours and not a zero hour contract, the latter of which probably won't provide you with a livable wage.

Your mother is certainly going to suffer, She won't be able to do the care work she currently does since those kind of contracts will be cut and she'll probably have to settle for one of the more dodgy contracts in which she's considered easily dispensable

Your brother's going to have an uncomfortable five years since he'll probably be let go at some point, he's got more job security than you or your mother but he's still going to be on shaky ground.

By voting in the Tories you've given up on any hope of job security and your quality of life is most likely going to tank completely in the next five years. I honestly don't understand how you can be so foolish as to defend the Tories when half of your family will be affected for the worst by their plans.

[Jemal]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Neither would I Jemal,IF that happens,we have the opportunity to kick him out.I don't want people to suffer,but I do think there is an overreaction at the moment,I hope he doesn't let us down,but there will be cuts we wont all like.Great thread btw.

Thank you,
replying to your other quote reply - all because alot of people worked hard to get rich, it doesn't nessecarrily mean that the people in poverty aren't also working hard. Its not fair Kaz, whatever way you look at it.

This whole government is trying to **** people who aren't like david cameron over and its infuriating.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I didn't say they work harder though did I ,I said they are rich because they have worked hard.

Some of them are, some of them aren't. Some poor people have worked hard and some haven't. Most "normal" people in normal jobs work easily as hard as most "rich" people, and yet aren't rich.

It's a meaningless statement.

[smudgie]

I suppose it comes down to what you consider to be rich.
To some, having a roof over your head , a meal on the table and keeping warm would be considered rich..to others just normal.


The other side of the coin is how people choose to spend these 'riches'.
Two families can earn the same or have the same income, one family might scrimp and save a bit for a rainy day, the other family might blow it all as it comes in, same chances in life, different choices, different end result come that rainy day.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

David Cameron had a disabled son,who sadly died,don't you tell me that he doesn't care,one of the best pictures I have ever seen of a father and son was one of him and Ivan.

I felt really sad for the Cameron's as to that,I also hoped it would make him more considerate in power as to others with children needing care.

No way did it however,Parents with children that need operations for bone problems,with problems as to sight and hearing etc' are having their 'care' for their children being delayed,cancelled and some put on hold indefinitely.

What was vital for his son, has not been made sure to be there for all other parents as to the NHS, as to their children's special needs.

He and his wife,are always ready to highlight the very sad situation as to their child but then to turn a blind eye to other Parents with ill,disabled or children with special needs.

No doubt he was a brilliant Father to his own son, but he has shown little regard for some other Parents.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Some of them are, some of them aren't. Some poor people have worked hard and some haven't. Most "normal" people in normal jobs work easily as hard as most "rich" people, and yet aren't rich.

It's a meaningless statement.

Of course, it's not us and them at all, having a job does not make you 'us' as much as being unemployed does not make you 'them'. How this is being perpetuated as the division between who voted tory and who didn't I don't know :/

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I suppose it comes down to what you consider to be rich.
To some, having a roof over your head , a meal on the table and keeping warm would be considered rich..to others just normal.


The other side of the coin is how people choose to spend these 'riches'.
Two families can earn the same or have the same income, one family might scrimp and save a bit for a rainy day, the other family might blow it all as it comes in, same chances in life, different choices, different end result come that rainy day.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Some poor people are lazy, some rich people need to do relatively little for their money. Some rich people worked hard to get into that position, some people work their fingers to the bone and will never have a hope of being rich.

The two aren't particularly related.

The idea that rich people are rich because they "work harder" is quite simply a completel fallacy. But it's a fallacy that the Tory party would absolutely love that you believe.

Another strong and good valid point.