[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

This is so awful, I can't understand how anyone can want to just leave them there.. (@ david cameron).

Seriously though when they're coming here we get tons of xenophobic rhetoric but as soon as an asian country says they're pushing boats away.. everyone is freaking out.

You really need to delete the words; 'xenophobic' and 'racist' from your dictionaries Josh.

Accepting reality is not being racist or xenophobic; it's recognising the absolutes of Science and Truth- from Economics and Mathematics, to Proxemics and Demographics.

A few points:

1) According to many on here, in the UK we have our OWN increasing numbers of homeless, destitute, desperate and hungry people.

2) So let's imagine that YOU live in the most common type of house - a 3 bed semi.

3) The average Total Floor Area of that 3 bed semi is 96.8 sq m - down from 98.8 sq m over the past 10 years due to shrinking land availability, a dearth of homes, affordability etc.

4) Ignoring Statutory Overcrowding legislation - which deems a room measuring 6.5 square meters as 'suitable' for one person and a room measuring 10.2 square meters as suitable for two people - it is possible for 100 homeless people to shelter from the elements every night in YOUR lovely 3 bed semi alone, by allowing them to sleep on the floor of every room.

Now YOU have SERIOUS problems:

5) The average 3 bed semi has:

a) one bathroom and just 2 toilets for 100 people.
b) one kitchen with one cooker.
c) only three or four sets of bedding.
d) limited pans, plates, crockery etc etc etc.
e) One fridge and freezer.
f) very limited storage.
g) only a couple of TV's.

SOLUTION:

e) Build a massive dormitory bedroom extension
f) Build 6 more bathrooms, 6 more wc's, 6 more kitchens - 6 more of everything.
f) Buy lots more beds, bedding, new sets of clothes for 100 people.
g)But don't forget to incorporate a massive upgrade to the sewers, water supply, electricity and gas - oh and arrange to pay the council for 2 or 3 huge commercial waste skips instead of your old wheelie bin.

NO CAN DO? WHY?

6)Well, the average Garden size of your average semi is just 163,2 sq metres - shrinking from 168 sq m in 1983.

7) Ease of access into this shrinking garden is 93.8% - down from 94% in 1983.

THERE SIMPLY IS NOT ROOM TO EXTEND - but even if there were, YOU have other problems:

YOU HAVE NOT GOT ANY MONEY WITH WHICH TO EXTEND, PUT IN NEW ADEQUATE INFRASTRUCTURE , AND RE-EQUIP:

6) The average household debt is now around £60,000 - up from just £29,000 in 2005.

So YOU want to help but are HELPLESS to HELP because:

A) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE SPACE.
B) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE RESOURCES.
C) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE MONEY.

The UK is in a FAR WORSE position:

This country is overcrowded.
This country is in debt.
This country's Police, Health, Education, Benefits, Social Services, and EVERY OTHER service is STRETCHED to BREAKING POINT.
The majority of this country's indigenous people are living increasingly difficult lives on increasingly limited incomes - an increasingly miserable existence really - with drug, drink, suicide rates up, and Food Banks on the up.

This country CANNOT HELP.

A) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE SPACE.
B) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE RESOURCES.
C) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE MONEY.

It has got nothing to do with 'Xenophobia' or 'Racism' or 'Extreme Right Wing-Ism' but ALL to do with Economics, Mathematics, Proxemics and Demographics.

Unless you show me the 100 homeless sleeping over at yours every night, I will stand by the above.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You really need to delete the words; 'xenophobic' and 'racist' from your dictionaries Josh.

Accepting reality is not being racist or xenophobic; it's recognising the absolutes of Science and Truth- from Economics and Mathematics, to Proxemics and Demographics.

A few points:

1) According to many on here, in the UK we have our OWN increasing numbers of homeless, destitute, desperate and hungry people.

2) So let's imagine that YOU live in the most common type of house - a 3 bed semi.

3) The average Total Floor Area of that 3 bed semi is 96.8 sq m - down from 98.8 sq m over the past 10 years due to shrinking land availability, a dearth of homes, affordability etc.

4) Ignoring Statutory Overcrowding legislation - which deems a room measuring 6.5 square meters as 'suitable' for one person and a room measuring 10.2 square meters as suitable for two people - it is possible for 100 homeless people to shelter from the elements every night in YOUR lovely 3 bed semi alone, by allowing them to sleep on the floor of every room.

Now YOU have SERIOUS problems:

5) The average 3 bed semi has:

a) one bathroom and just 2 toilets for 100 people.
b) one kitchen with one cooker.
c) only three or four sets of bedding.
d) limited pans, plates, crockery etc etc etc.
e) One fridge and freezer.
f) very limited storage.
g) only a couple of TV's.

SOLUTION:

e) Build a massive dormitory bedroom extension
f) Build 6 more bathrooms, 6 more wc's, 6 more kitchens - 6 more of everything.
f) Buy lots more beds, bedding, new sets of clothes for 100 people.
g)But don't forget to incorporate a massive upgrade to the sewers, water supply, electricity and gas - oh and arrange to pay the council for 2 or 3 huge commercial waste skips instead of your old wheelie bin.

NO CAN DO? WHY?

6)Well, the average Garden size of your average semi is just 163,2 sq metres - shrinking from 168 sq m in 1983.

7) Ease of access into this shrinking garden is 93.8% - down from 94% in 1983.

THERE SIMPLY IS NOT ROOM TO EXTEND - but even if there were, YOU have other problems:

YOU HAVE NOT GOT ANY MONEY WITH WHICH TO EXTEND, PUT IN NEW ADEQUATE INFRASTRUCTURE , AND RE-EQUIP:

6) The average household debt is now around £60,000 - up from just £29,000 in 2005.

So YOU want to help but are HELPLESS to HELP because:

A) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE SPACE.
B) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE RESOURCES.
C) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE MONEY.

The UK is in a FAR WORSE position:

This country is overcrowded.
This country is in debt.
This country's Police, Health, Education, Benefits, Social Services, and EVERY OTHER service is STRETCHED to BREAKING POINT.
The majority of this country's indigenous people are living increasingly difficult lives on increasingly limited incomes - an increasingly miserable existence really - with drug, drink, suicide rates up, and Food Banks on the up.

This country CANNOT HELP.

A) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE SPACE.
B) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE RESOURCES.
C) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE MONEY.

It has got nothing to do with 'Xenophobia' or 'Racism' or 'Extreme Right Wing-Ism' but ALL to do with Economics, Mathematics, Proxemics and Demographics.

Unless you show me the 100 homeless sleeping over at yours every night, I will stand by the above.

I have to agree Kirk.
The people at the top have to think with their heads and not with their hearts in this situation, there is poverty all over the world and no country can take in more than they can cope with.
Rather than helping the poverty stricken countries get better it just brings the country taking them in worse, the best solution is to try and help these poor unfortunate people in their own countries.
Perhaps the continent they live in should be more accountable for its people as well.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You really need to delete the words; 'xenophobic' and 'racist' from your dictionaries Josh.

Accepting reality is not being racist or xenophobic; it's recognising the absolutes of Science and Truth- from Economics and Mathematics, to Proxemics and Demographics.

A few points:

1) According to many on here, in the UK we have our OWN increasing numbers of homeless, destitute, desperate and hungry people.

2) So let's imagine that YOU live in the most common type of house - a 3 bed semi.

3) The average Total Floor Area of that 3 bed semi is 96.8 sq m - down from 98.8 sq m over the past 10 years due to shrinking land availability, a dearth of homes, affordability etc.

4) Ignoring Statutory Overcrowding legislation - which deems a room measuring 6.5 square meters as 'suitable' for one person and a room measuring 10.2 square meters as suitable for two people - it is possible for 100 homeless people to shelter from the elements every night in YOUR lovely 3 bed semi alone, by allowing them to sleep on the floor of every room.

Now YOU have SERIOUS problems:

5) The average 3 bed semi has:

a) one bathroom and just 2 toilets for 100 people.
b) one kitchen with one cooker.
c) only three or four sets of bedding.
d) limited pans, plates, crockery etc etc etc.
e) One fridge and freezer.
f) very limited storage.
g) only a couple of TV's.

SOLUTION:

e) Build a massive dormitory bedroom extension
f) Build 6 more bathrooms, 6 more wc's, 6 more kitchens - 6 more of everything.
f) Buy lots more beds, bedding, new sets of clothes for 100 people.
g)But don't forget to incorporate a massive upgrade to the sewers, water supply, electricity and gas - oh and arrange to pay the council for 2 or 3 huge commercial waste skips instead of your old wheelie bin.

NO CAN DO? WHY?

6)Well, the average Garden size of your average semi is just 163,2 sq metres - shrinking from 168 sq m in 1983.

7) Ease of access into this shrinking garden is 93.8% - down from 94% in 1983.

THERE SIMPLY IS NOT ROOM TO EXTEND - but even if there were, YOU have other problems:

YOU HAVE NOT GOT ANY MONEY WITH WHICH TO EXTEND, PUT IN NEW ADEQUATE INFRASTRUCTURE , AND RE-EQUIP:

6) The average household debt is now around £60,000 - up from just £29,000 in 2005.

So YOU want to help but are HELPLESS to HELP because:

A) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE SPACE.
B) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE RESOURCES.
C) YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE MONEY.

The UK is in a FAR WORSE position:

This country is overcrowded.
This country is in debt.
This country's Police, Health, Education, Benefits, Social Services, and EVERY OTHER service is STRETCHED to BREAKING POINT.
The majority of this country's indigenous people are living increasingly difficult lives on increasingly limited incomes - an increasingly miserable existence really - with drug, drink, suicide rates up, and Food Banks on the up.

This country CANNOT HELP.

A) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE SPACE.
B) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE RESOURCES.
C) WE HAVE NOT GOT THE MONEY.

It has got nothing to do with 'Xenophobia' or 'Racism' or 'Extreme Right Wing-Ism' but ALL to do with Economics, Mathematics, Proxemics and Demographics.

Unless you show me the 100 homeless sleeping over at yours every night, I will stand by the above.

The UK is not in a worse position, we just think we are because our personal debt issues are weighing everyone down, there less secure unemployment and we live in a state of perpetual anxiety about just about everything.
Thanks to modern governments we are a nation of paranoid neurotics pumped full of prescription drugs in an attempt to feel 'normal'.

Who is to blame for this shrinking garden of Eden that was the UK?
Where are the jobs, the industry, the infrastructure.

I'm not suggesting that we take them but there seems little to no compassion and or empathy for them in the main as human beings... they're viewed as and reported as less than human and that IS a cause for concern.
Camerons faux hand wringing doesn't fool me, he doesn't give a damn about his own citizens let alone anyone elses, Dave the champion of apartheid cares nothing for anyone north of Chipping Norton.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The UK is not in a worse position, we just think we are because our personal debt issues are weighing everyone down, there less secure unemployment and we live in a state of perpetual anxiety about just about everything.
Thanks to modern governments we are a nation of paranoid neurotics pumped full of prescription drugs in an attempt to feel 'normal'.

Who is to blame for this shrinking garden of Eden that was the UK?
Where are the jobs, the industry, the infrastructure.

I'm not suggesting that we take them but there seems little to no compassion and or empathy for them in the main as human beings... they're viewed as and reported as less than human and that IS a cause for concern.
Camerons faux hand wringing doesn't fool me, he doesn't give a damn about his own citizens let alone anyone elses, Dave the champion of apartheid cares nothing for anyone north of Chipping Norton.

Kizzy - I don't even know what you are stating here.

My post is not political and has nothing at all to do with David Cameron. It is simply a true reflection of reality.

I strongly disagree that; "there seems little to no compassion and or empathy for these unfortunate people in the main as human beings... " or that; "they're viewed as and reported as less than human", and I would ask you to explain just 'who' is guilty of this? The media? The Politicians? Tibb members?

I personally have not witnessed such callousness.

I am totally confused by the constantly self-contradictory mindset of you and certain others on here when it comes to specific issues;

You spend time and effort posting long eloquently written posts decrying how wretched a country the UK has become - pointing out the increasing numbers of the poor, starving and homeless, the abysmal state of the underfunded, overstretched National health Service, the failing, underfunded Social Services, the rise of Food Banks etc, etc, etc.

Then in other posts you maintain that the UK is NOT overcrowded, has NO housing shortage, and can accommodate millions of immigrants and refugees.

Even with no schooling, it's not hard to see the truth:

You see, I come from a very large family who were dirt poor, and all I know is that the 'dinnertime's' when 3 or 4 of my family were at work, school or out, were THE BEST dinnertime's, because it meant that old meat and potato pie got cut into less pieces - all which were much bigger than at any other dinnertime's when all of us were present.

It was exactly the same at bedtime with 3 single beds in one single bedroom and 5 of us lads having to share those single beds. My sisters shared beds in the other even smaller bedroom.

It's a good job my old mum didn't have even more kids because not only did we NOT have the ROOM for them, we could NOT afford to feed and clothe them.

My mum had 3 jobs and my dad was a 'ripper' down the pit, but with so many mouths to feed and wages being so meager, there was never enough money to even ensure that us who were there could live decently.

Yep - Cameron or Blair, Tory or Labour, mismanagement or astute Government - the facts are that as far as Economics, Mathematics, Proxemics and Demographics are concerned, the UK has neither THE SPACE.
THE RESOURCES, or THE MONEY to cater for anymore people.

I know. I've been here before.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Kizzy - I don't even know what you are stating here.

My post is not political and has nothing at all to do with David Cameron. It is simply a true reflection of reality.

I strongly disagree that; "there seems little to no compassion and or empathy for these unfortunate people in the main as human beings... " or that; "they're viewed as and reported as less than human", and I would ask you to explain just 'who' is guilty of this? The media? The Politicians? Tibb members?

I personally have not witnessed such callousness.

I am totally confused by the constantly self-contradictory mindset of you and certain others on here when it comes to specific issues;

You spend time and effort posting long eloquently written posts decrying how wretched a country the UK has become - pointing out the increasing numbers of the poor, starving and homeless, the abysmal state of the underfunded, overstretched National health Service, the failing, underfunded Social Services, the rise of Food Banks etc, etc, etc.

Then in other posts you maintain that the UK is NOT overcrowded, has NO housing shortage, and can accommodate millions of immigrants and refugees.

Even with no schooling, it's not hard to see the truth:

You see, I come from a very large family who were dirt poor, and all I know is that the 'dinnertime's' when 3 or 4 of my family were at work, school or out, were THE BEST dinnertime's, because it meant that old meat and potato pie got cut into less pieces - all which were much bigger than at any other dinnertime's when all of us were present.

It was exactly the same at bedtime with 3 single beds in one single bedroom and 5 of us lads having to share those single beds. My sisters shared beds in the other even smaller bedroom.

It's a good job my old mum didn't have even more kids because not only did we NOT have the ROOM for them, we could NOT afford to feed and clothe them.

My mum had 3 jobs and my dad was a 'ripper' down the pit, but with so many mouths to feed and wages being so meager, there was never enough money to even ensure that us who were there could live decently.

Yep - Cameron or Blair, Tory or Labour, mismanagement or astute Government - the facts are that as far as Economics, Mathematics, Proxemics and Demographics are concerned, the UK has neither THE SPACE.
THE RESOURCES, or THE MONEY to cater for anymore people.

I know. I've been here before.

What don't you understand?
All issues are political; housing, immigration, education, health and welfare you can't not politicise them.
It is not reality, it's your perception of reality to be factual.
My perception of the attitudes of the nation are based on reactions to recent media reports, a general undertone nothing to do with specific individuals.
Luckily I have had schooling and can see objectively, I do not think the UK is 'full' however nowhere have I stated we can accommodate 'millions more' immigrants.
Nothing I've said on this thread is contradictory to anything I've previously stated.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The UK is not in a worse position, we just think we are because our personal debt issues are weighing everyone down, there less secure unemployment and we live in a state of perpetual anxiety about just about everything.
Thanks to modern governments we are a nation of paranoid neurotics pumped full of prescription drugs in an attempt to feel 'normal'.

Who is to blame for this shrinking garden of Eden that was the UK?
Where are the jobs, the industry, the infrastructure.

I'm not suggesting that we take them but there seems little to no compassion and or empathy for them in the main as human beings... they're viewed as and reported as less than human and that IS a cause for concern.
Camerons faux hand wringing doesn't fool me, he doesn't give a damn about his own citizens let alone anyone elses, Dave the champion of apartheid cares nothing for anyone north of Chipping Norton.

Yes thats why Big Brother is good