[billy123]

It is designed to make working class people feel better about their lives even though they are a lot worse off than they have been for a long long time.
Giving them a section of society to look down on makes them feel relatively superior even though it isnt a true reflection of the world.
The sad thing is that so many are willing to put the blinkers on and lap it up like good little citizens.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bobnot

It is designed to make working class people feel better about their lives even though they are a lot worse off than they have been for a long long time.
Giving them a section of society to look down on makes them feel relatively superior even though it isnt a true reflection of the world.
The sad thing is that so many are willing to put the blinkers on and lap it up like good little citizens.

Exactly. Working class pride. An effort to make people feel proud and superior just because "they go out to work", even if it's for peanuts. Keeps people quiet.

[Ammi]

...but then that's also stereotyping a 'public mindset' when a vast majority of the public do realise that it's only a tiny minority of people on benefits who aren't genuine and who are shown in these programmes...to describe 'public mindsets' as trash is equally stereotyping in a very negative way..no 'public' that I personally know is in any doubt that benefit fraud is a tiny percentage ...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...but then that's also stereotyping a 'public mindset' when a vast majority of the public do realise that it's only a tiny minority of people on benefits who aren't genuine and who are shown in these programmes...to describe 'public mindsets' as trash is equally stereotyping in a very negative way..no 'public' that I personally know is in any doubt that benefit fraud is a tiny percentage ...

So you are genuinely trying to tell me that in the last five years, there HASN'T been ANY trend toward the vilification of benefits and benefits claimants? Nothing about the recession has been scapegoated onto benefits claimants? There isn't an increasing atmosphere of animosity around the subject?

...are you asleep, Ammi? Are you actually asleep?

[Ammi]

..that's not what I said though, that people on benefits aren't sometimes often portrayed in a negative way but that to also stereotype a public mindset as 'trash' is exactly the same as thing being objected to..?..in the same way as the majority of people on benefits are genuine..there is also a vast public who realise that and realise the slant of it/the programmes etc...


..I'll ignore the last little condescending bit of your post ...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that's not what I said though, that people on benefits aren't sometimes often portrayed in a negative way but that to also stereotype a public mindset as 'trash' is exactly the same as thing being objected to..?..in the same way as the majority of people on benefits are genuine..there is also a vast public who realise that and realise the slant of it/the programmes etc...


..I'll ignore the last little condescending bit of your post ...

This is a stretch Ammi - I can't possibly be stereotyping or condemning "the entire public mindset" as, oddly enough, I am also a member of the public.

I am condemning the mindset of people who give these shows an audience as having a trashy mindset, and in supplying that audience, giving these trashy channels financial incentive to continue making these trashy shows.

I very much doubt it managed to scrape out a million viewers. Hardly the entire public, is it? But the point is, it is ENOUGH of the public to continue the undercurrent of distaste and villification surrounding benefits. One viewer is too many.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is a stretch Ammi - I can't possibly be stereotyping or condemning "the entire public mindset" as, oddly enough, I am also a member of the public.

I am condemning the mindset of people who give these shows an audience as having a trashy mindset, and in supplying that audience, giving these trashy channels financial incentive to continue making these trashy shows.

I very much doubt it managed to scrape out a million viewers. Hardly the entire public, is it? But the point is, it is ENOUGH of the public to continue the undercurrent of distaste and villification surrounding benefits. One viewer is too many.

I never watch any of these programmes I had never seen White Dee until she was on BB, I was drawn into this because of how car crash Matt Johnson was narrating it, I reserve the right to watch what I like without being called trash! After all if we all just watched quality high brow TV we wouldn't be on this forum!

[Ammi]

....you were judging people negatively because you felt their mindset was to judge people negatively when you really don't know a 'general public mindset' on this, really you can't pick and choose ...my 'public' in that the people I know personally in 'the real world' don't have that mindset of judging anyone on benefits at all are thinking these programmes are representative of a majority or anything close to it...

...it's 'trash' TV, I agree/designed to be trash TV as are many programmes now on many different things and ...yeah, so far as viewing figures are concerned..?...well, you just have to look at 'negative threads' on forums to see that they attract more attention, more discussion, ,ore passion etc than more positive ones, so I guess Channel 5 just know their 'human nature' ...and here we are as well on a reality, so basically 'trash TV forum'...and many of us watching trash TV obviously...there is no point in saying..ughhhh, for watching these things to people because we all or most of us watch 'trash TV' ....


...anyways as is often sadly the case, discussions without becoming personal and derogatory in posts becomes impossible in this section so I'm opting out...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly. Working class pride. An effort to make people feel proud and superior just because "they go out to work", even if it's for peanuts. Keeps people quiet.

Is that such a bad thing though that people should feel "pride" in earning their own money? These programmes are made because they are cheap to make and get reasonable ratings so its win win for the channel, I doubt there is a government initiative driving them, I would like a similar type of programme to be carried out on the Lords and how much money is wasted on them but I guess they are too canny to get involved.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Is that such a bad thing though that people should feel "pride" in earning their own money?

It is if that stops them from realising that they are being exploited by people who are laughing at them all the way to the bank. Or if it makes them feel morally superior to anyone else.

I'm not a religious person... but "Pride" is considered to be a sin for a very good reason.

These programmes are made because they are cheap to make and get reasonable ratings so its win win for the channel, I doubt there is a government initiative driving them, I would like a similar type of programme to be carried out on the Lords and how much money is wasted on them but I guess they are too canny to get involved.

Yes, and there's a reason that they get those ratings. People whipped up and ready for a witch hunt. People realise that things are ****, it makes them angry, and they want someone to blame. That blame has been shifted - for obvious reasons - onto the people who are least likely to have the resources to do anything about it.

That's why you don't see three hours in a row of these shows about the lords or the corrupt MPs or unscrupulous bankers. They have the money to stop it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is if that stops them from realising that they are being exploited by people who are laughing at them all the way to the bank. Or if it makes them feel morally superior to anyone else.

I'm not a religious person... but "Pride" is considered to be a sin for a very good reason.




Yes, and there's a reason that they get those ratings. People whipped up and ready for a witch hunt. People realise that things are ****, it makes them angry, and they want someone to blame. That blame has been shifted - for obvious reasons - onto the people who are least likely to have the resources to do anything about it.

That's why you don't see three hours in a row of these shows about the lords or the corrupt MPs or unscrupulous bankers. They have the money to stop it.

So anyone who goes out to earn a wage is being exploited? I don't feel morally superior for going to work, I go to work because I want to pay my bills, keep a roof over my head and have a certain standard of living and I would rather work for "peanuts" and I have done in the past than sit at home watching daytime TV. It used to be called a work ethic!


I think you underestimate the viewing public we are not all brain washed idiots, the programmes could not be made if people didn't want to be the next "White Dee" or see a freebie landing in their lap, so you have to lay as much blame on the participants as the programme makers.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So anyone who goes out to earn a wage is being exploited?

Anyone who works for a low to moderate wage for a large company is most likely being exploited, yes. I know that most people don't agree with or understand that, though.

I don't feel morally superior for going to work, I go to work because I want to pay my bills, keep a roof over my head and have a certain standard of living and I would rather work for "peanuts" and I have done in the past than sit at home watching daytime TV.

Yes, good for you, I go out to work for the very same reasons. That's hardly the point, and not what my post was about. My post was specifically about pride, or more importantly, this idea that going out to work might make someone, on some sort of moral level, "better than" someone who does otherwise. It doesn't.


"Dante's definition of pride was: love of self, perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbour."

I'd say this is fairly apt when it comes to these shows, and those who get jollies from watching them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bobnot

It is designed to make working class people feel better about their lives even though they are a lot worse off than they have been for a long long time.
Giving them a section of society to look down on makes them feel relatively superior even though it isnt a true reflection of the world.
The sad thing is that so many are willing to put the blinkers on and lap it up like good little citizens.